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RFQ - motorcycle suspension parts - optimal for Swiss lathe

kreft

Plastic
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Location
Bend
I have a rush job available for 200 of the part pictured below. Ideally I would like them in under two weeks. You are welcome to break the order into smaller runs if you prefer. The part is 7075 Aluminum with major diameter 19.7mm (about 3/4"). These parts are usually most economical to make on Swiss machines or other live tooling lathe. A competitive price for this part is $7.30 ea including type II anodize.

This project is for Kreft Moto, a national leader in KTM dirt bike suspension modifications. We make a lot of parts and are always looking for good machining partners.

If you are interested in bidding, send me a PM with your email address. I will email a print and 3D model for your review.

Rev3 snip.jpg
 
Good luck getting 200 base-valves in 7075 already anodized for $7.30
A guy could barely buy the material and pay the anodizer for $7.30.
Then he would have to pay shipping out of his own pocket. after making the parts for free.
You might get 2,000 of them down that low. But, 200? no way.

By the way: you did not mention lapping the faces? You do lap the faces, don't you?

You are always looking for good machining partners because you are cheap, and nobody wants to work for free.
I know for a fact you are going to sell a pair of these for over $100.
Figure your machined parts (un-coated) should come in about 30% of retail. That puts you @ about $16ea
 
Good luck getting 200 base-valves in 7075 already anodized for $7.30
A guy could barely buy the material and pay the anodizer for $7.30.
Then he would have to pay shipping out of his own pocket. after making the parts for free.
You might get 2,000 of them down that low. But, 200? no way.

By the way: you did not mention lapping the faces? You do lap the faces, don't you?

Maybe I'm missing something or you are paying more for anodize than I am. 3 second google search says 1" 7075 is $7.90/ft from the most expensive source I could find. I'm guessing part will need 1" length per part + remnant + setup + screw ups, say 20' of material = $158 material. My local anodize guy is $75 minimum, (assume black color) this job would likely fall into that area. So material + anodize + shipping = $250 ish? Little meat left on the bone yet.
 
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Maybe I'm missing something or you are paying more for anodize than I am. 3 second google search says 1" 7075 is $7.90/ft from the most expensive source I could find. I'm guessing part will need 1" length per part + remnant + setup + screw ups, say 12' of material = $158 material. My local anodize guy is $75 minimum, (assume black color) this job would likely fall into that area. So material + anodize + shipping = $250 ish? Little meat left on the bone yet.

How did you get 200 1" long pieces out of one 12' Stick?
Minimum at the crappy plater around here is $150. The good ones are too busy to mess with these jobs.
So, you also have the risk factor that they will get chowdered at the plater.
Plus time to deliver. Or cost to ship. Twice.
 
How did you get 200 1" long pieces out of one 12' Stick?
Minimum at the crappy plater around here is $150. The good ones are too busy to mess with these jobs.
So, you also have the risk factor that they will get chowdered at the plater.
Plus time to deliver. Or cost to ship. Twice.

12' should have read 20', the important part of $158 is correct. I'll edit the original post.

You need a different anodizer. I haven't seen a shop do plating and anodizing around here, one or the other. Maybe someone does. In AZ you might be limited on choices, here in the rust belt there are many anodize shops.

I don't quote jobs planning on making and shipping them twice, would be hard to be competitive.

Edit: I see you added to your initial post, must be some history here I don't know about.
 
Edit: I see you added to your initial post, must be some history here I don't know about.

History with the OP? nope.

But, I have been an avid dirt-biker my whole life. I know exactly what those parts are. And what they are worth.
The outside faces need to be perfectly flat and smooth (not just "as turned"). They need lapped.

And, I am currently avoiding the race to the bottom. You are welcome to jump in at $7.30 if you like.
But, they are worth +$15ea. all day long at his quantity.
 
how do you chamfer that internal chamfer of the outer small pockets. It looks like a impossible shape on a 3axis mill or lathe.
 
how do you chamfer that internal chamfer of the outer small pockets. It looks like a impossible shape on a 3axis mill or lathe.

It would be impossible to machine it 100% to the model. But, it could be tweaked in pretty close with a small chamfer mill.
 
History with the OP? nope.

But, I have been an avid dirt-biker my whole life. I know exactly what those parts are. And what they are worth.
The outside faces need to be perfectly flat and smooth (not just "as turned"). They need lapped.

And, I am currently avoiding the race to the bottom. You are welcome to jump in at $7.30 if you like.
But, they are worth +$15ea. all day long at his quantity.

I don't know what swiss rates are these days, been alot of years since I been around any in the shop. But I know for a 200 piece order, they are going to want to sure as hell make more than $7 per part! :eek: Either that, or they have a machine open with no work booked, and have some aluminum bar stock sitting around that is "free material". Not to mention, wouldn't 3/4" (not round!) aluminum bar stock be a pain in the ass for a swiss with the bushings and all that?
 
I don't know what swiss rates are these days, been alot of years since I been around any in the shop. But I know for a 200 piece order, they are going to want to sure as hell make more than $7 per part! :eek: Either that, or they have a machine open with no work booked, and have some aluminum bar stock sitting around that is "free material". Not to mention, wouldn't 3/4" (not round!) aluminum bar stock be a pain in the ass for a swiss with the bushings and all that?

For the record, I just sent the fellow a quote. While I will not say on here what I quoted, I did come close on the price he was saying was competitive. And no, we do not have material on the rack. I just can't deliver in the time allotted.

As to running aluminum in a swiss, it is not a PITA if you buy the right material. In fact, it's downright easy. And if you have a "convertible" swiss, as we do, it completely takes bar stock tolerances out of the equation if you need something like this to be close tolerance. From what I saw on the print, there isn't anything on there close tolerance enough for me to mess with the changeover. We could run this with cold finished stock.

It was also mentioned above that the chamfers are an impossible feature to make. If you look at the 2D print, it explains the transition for what they need, which is not as pictured in the solid model. Unfortunately, 3D modeling is not perfect, unless you want to spend lots of extra time to make it exact. For most parts, it is not worth it.

Finally, the cost to produce a part vs. buying the finished product will always be very different. When you take into account that distributors and retailers typically want a margin equal to the value of what they are paying or more. Given this extremely generalized approximation but for conversation sake, if you are buying from the retailer at $100, you can generally bet that they are paying approximately $50 for it. The distributor that they bought it from likely paid around $25 for it. And the company selling it as their branded part, bought it from someone like me in the $7-10 range. They then added their warehousing, repackaging and/or assembly process, original design/prototyping, marketing, and liability insurance costs, plus some profit margin that pushed up the price from the $7-10 range to the $25 that they sold it to the distributor for. Again, this is an over-generalization, but rest assured, when you go to Walmart and you see something being sold at 50-60% off on clearance, they are still making money on it. They just want the quick sale. Typical retail markups in a grocery store are 200-500%. That means you are paying 2 to 5 times what the retailer paid for it.:ack2:

Please do not burn me at the stake for the above, as I know every situation is different, and I 100% realize that my numbers are not accurate. All I am saying is when you think about the retail price of something and compare it to the manufacturing cost, they are going to be different. Just remember that everyone that touches that object gets some piece of the pie and the more layers, the more the price goes up.

:cheers:
 








 
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