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RFQ - Pinewood Derby Axles

Shawn67

Plastic
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Looking for a small project to work on with someone that could grow. I'm starting to sell Pinewood derby parts and need some axles made. Made from Stainless and Very precise and very smooth. I've been racing pinewood derby cars for 4-5 years with my boys in cub Scouts and decided to start up my own website.

Please and Thanks
Shawn


Quantities to start off 500
Axles (like a nail)
made from Stainless Steel
size
length = 1 1/8"
Head = .191"
Diameter 1 = .091"
Diameter 2 = .093"
Head = slightly beveled and rounded
 
Looking for a small project to work on with someone that could grow. I'm starting to sell Pinewood derby parts and need some axles made. Made from Stainless and Very precise and very smooth. I've been racing pinewood derby cars for 4-5 years with my boys in cub Scouts and decided to start up my own website.

Please and Thanks
Shawn


Quantities to start off 500
Axles (like a nail)
made from Stainless Steel
size
length = 1 1/8"
Head = .191"
Diameter 1 = .091"
Diameter 2 = .093"
Head = slightly beveled and rounded

Shawn

I fondly remember building pinewood derby cars with my sons, and this last Christmass I had the opportunity to help my grandson work on his.

I has been years since I read them but I seem to remember that the rules say you have to use the parts in the kit. Are you sure what you planning is legal?

I think that teaching the boys to file off the heading flanges and smooth the axles is a significant part of the learning process, and you seem to be proposing to do away with that. Are you sure that's a good idea?

If you want to go forward with your idea, you need to: 1) make a drawing with dimensions, and tolerances. Tighter tolerances mean higher price, 2) The tolerances will define the "Very Precise" and a surface finish specification will define the "very smooth". The surface finish will be specified as either uIn or uM, see Surface finish - Wikipedia

Best of luck with your plans, and all future derbies.
CarlBoyd
 
I was wondering about the legality too. And I'm not sure "stainless" is a good choice for an axle either, due to ease of galling, which can imply high friction. If this was a open area I'd want a hardened steel pin, ideally one that's been nitrided, which tends to reduce friction.
 
The other thing is that, as I recall, this is a violation of the rules. When my boys were in scouts I wanted to do the same but the rules said that the Crappy nails and wheels in the kit had to be use.
 
Thanks for the response Carl, most of the people purchasing the Stainless would be for the Pros that race 'yes Pros' :) I've raced in the pros a few years and then got on the committee Mid America Pinewood Derby 'largest pinewood derby in the nation' (very cool and rewarding thing to belong to) 4-600 cars we race once a year.

So I'm trying to provide Scout side and Pro side, Videos, bodies and body covers, sandpaper, special graphite and top secret wax's and additives.

About the tolerances and Surface finish, I might need a little help.

Tolerances.
I run .093 axles 94 are too big and 92 are too small. So I'm guessing we are talking .001 (thousandths). below .002 would be nice.
Note: maybe we can talk later and get a .0921 through .0939 made and I'll test each one! :)

surface finish
the current axles I use 1200 micromesh to start polishing my axles and finish off with 12,000.
note: I could send an example of axle

Drawing,
Can I send it directly to you? I'd rather not post I've already has someone steal another idea and made thousands.

Thanks
Shawn
 
if there was a "cheaters class" how about going with full out air bearings and a small co2 tank to supply the juice...full composite/ carbon fiber body so you can weight it to your liking, after about $12,000.00 dollars you might have a derby winner.
 
if there was a "cheaters class" how about going with full out air bearings and a small co2 tank to supply the juice...full composite/ carbon fiber body so you can weight it to your liking, after about $12,000.00 dollars you might have a derby winner.
Naw....you just need some "MollyDee"....
 
It's illegal in pinewood derby to do anything but polish the provided axles...that goes for the wheels too. Of course some people do it but it takes the fun out of it. I've built a few cars for my fiances nephew that we're all first place cars...my secret, well placed tungsten slugs.

I went a little overboard one year and had to mill the hell out of the body lol...the next year he wanted a mine craft car which was basically needed to be the whole rectangular block, cncd the face and the gutted the underside and put my tungsten slug in the sweet spot. Surprisingly they never broke lol. There's also a certain way to set the gap between the wheel and the body. Even the cheaters he beat couldn't figure out how he won.

Teaching kids it's ok to cheat is dumb and only shows your ignorance. had to read the rules before I started, it was a few years since I did that I made eagle in 97.
 
Thanks for the response Carl. I am actually selling to kids/dads and the Pros. 'Yes Pros' lol I raced in the pros for a couple of years and then got on the Mid-America Pinewood Derby committee (nationals for pinewood derby). Once a year We set up 4 tracks, two for Scouts, kids, adults and Pros. One for Lego racing and one for Hot wheel racing. I help with the Video streaming. Anyone can send a car in and race and watch it from the comfort of their own home live. (4-500 cars show up) (multiple classes allow CNC'd wheels and axles.) But not the Qualified Scout class.

For Tolerances:
since I'm not familiar with CNC and what’s capable. I run .093 axles, .094 are too big and .092 are too small. So I'm hoping .0002-.0003??

Smoothness:
It’s difficult to explain but when I polish I start with 1500 grit Micromesh and finish up with 12,000. However, I do feel that stainless can't compare with a good Steel bar for polishing.
Note: I can send you an axle for an example

Hardness:
Not sure how to explain this but for me to bend an axle (for the front wheel to steer) I have to cut around the axle with a Dremel taking about half the .093. Put it in a Vice and slightly tap it till I get the 3 degree bend I'm looking for. (I do have a tool to do this also but still have to cut it.)

Straightness:
Is also a concern.

Drawing:
I’d like to send it directly to your email if that’s ok?

Note: if your in the Omaha Area around Derby time, I'll be holding a workshop for the Scouts and Dads!

Thanks
Shawn
 
It's illegal in pinewood derby to do anything but polish the provided axles...that goes for the wheels too. Of course some people do it but it takes the fun out of it. I've built a few cars for my fiances nephew that we're all first place cars...my secret, well placed tungsten slugs.

I went a little overboard one year and had to mill the hell out of the body lol...the next year he wanted a mine craft car which was basically needed to be the whole rectangular block, cncd the face and the gutted the underside and put my tungsten slug in the sweet spot. Surprisingly they never broke lol. There's also a certain way to set the gap between the wheel and the body. Even the cheaters he beat couldn't figure out how he won.

Teaching kids it's ok to cheat is dumb and only shows your ignorance. had to read the rules before I started, it was a few years since I did that I made eagle in 97.

congrats on the Eagle, that's a big deal!!

Totally agree about the cheating, but what is cool you teach them about all the other secrets about racing. 3 degree axles, 3 wheels only (rail rider) bend an axle to steer into the rail. (and many more)
 
I hate it when adults get involved in juvenile recreation.

And we complain that the kids are fucked up.

ps

I'll make those "nails" for you.

$110 each. qty 500. Heck. $440 is cheap money to see your child's face light up when their car beats all the others!
 
I hate it when adults get involved in juvenile recreation.

And we complain that the kids are fucked up.

ps

I'll make those "nails" for you.

$110 each. qty 500. Heck. $440 is cheap money to see your child's face light up when their car beats all the others!

It's the american way ya know, win at any cost.
Tom Cochrane - Big League Lyrics - YouTube

But no one thinks about the kid from a single mom that don't have a father to "help".....
 
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When my kid raced pinewood derby, I polished those axles in my Harding at 3000 rpm with a cratex stick.
They shined up like chrome. I also cut the OD of the wheels to run true to the bore.
Then I assembled the wheels and axles on the surface plate so everything was aligned.
A little graphite powder in the axle at race time and that thing was fast.

Until he dropped it.:rolleyes5:
 
Before I read the rules I had Teflon inserts planned for the wheels and machined and polished axles. I was also going to turn the wheels to allow for minimal contact patch. I'd like to do a cheaters derby just to see what I could do.
 
Recently retired Cubmaster here, so I'd like to chime in on the legality and cheating. The rules for axles and materials are usually set at the district level and most of the packs under them follow those rules. For my pack, you had to use the provided axles and wheels, OR BSA approved wheels. They recently started making colored BSA wheels and those were acceptable. I never saw a parent (or kid) trying to cheat in that respect. I saw a few cars that I very strongly suspected that it was a pre-cut body they bought, BUT we take them at their word for something like that.

My last year, we did an unlimited class where you could use any wheels, axles, materials, bearings, etc. The only limitation was the physical size and weight. In that case, these axles would be perfectly legal. Our car for the unlimited was made from aluminum and we turned our own wheels out of UHMW bar.

We had one dad who took his son to a championship race with a car they built with micro bearings and wheels that were thin as razor blades. Again, totally legal for that race.

The ideal setup for pinewood derby is when the child makes the car with his adult partner (dad, mom, grandpap, uncle joe or whoever) and learns a little more each year. 1st graders can't do all the cutting and polishing themselves, but should still be involved with each step of the build. By the time they get to 5th grade, they should be doing most of it themselves. I like seeing when they get creative to make the car run as fast as it can within the confines of the rules.

As I always told the kids, if you had fun building your car, then you've already won.
 
Recently retired Cubmaster here, so I'd like to chime in on the legality and cheating. The rules for axles and materials are usually set at the district level and most of the packs under them follow those rules. For my pack, you had to use the provided axles and wheels, OR BSA approved wheels. They recently started making colored BSA wheels and those were acceptable. I never saw a parent (or kid) trying to cheat in that respect. I saw a few cars that I very strongly suspected that it was a pre-cut body they bought, BUT we take them at their word for something like that.

My last year, we did an unlimited class where you could use any wheels, axles, materials, bearings, etc. The only limitation was the physical size and weight. In that case, these axles would be perfectly legal. Our car for the unlimited was made from aluminum and we turned our own wheels out of UHMW bar.

We had one dad who took his son to a championship race with a car they built with micro bearings and wheels that were thin as razor blades. Again, totally legal for that race.

The ideal setup for pinewood derby is when the child makes the car with his adult partner (dad, mom, grandpap, uncle joe or whoever) and learns a little more each year. 1st graders can't do all the cutting and polishing themselves, but should still be involved with each step of the build. By the time they get to 5th grade, they should be doing most of it themselves. I like seeing when they get creative to make the car run as fast as it can within the confines of the rules.

As I always told the kids, if you had fun building your car, then you've already won.

Are you serious?

"By the time they get to 5th grade, they should be doing most of it themselves."

No wonder the adults dominate over the kids.

Have you heard the expression "every year your child is under your (parental) "suppression" , there are three years of hell to pay.

It's true! and it starts today! Let 'em be kids! The world will thank you for it.

Life is not about beating the other guy! Get it!
 
My experience as a judge, in 2004 iirc when i was ~16, was the adults weren't enforcing the rules. Rounded wheels, overweight cars, etc. I don't think any of the children noticed but it did leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I was sufficiently demoralized by 2004 i didnt bother trying for eagle.


Anyhow, if you are stuck with no modifications the the wheels, drill out the bore and insert a graphite bushing. No need to add graphite, and no one will notice a black graphite bushing inserted into the hub of the wheel.
 
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We had weigh-in and then one car some how got more weight... good that one of the handlers caught/felt the extra weight so it was re
was re-weighed...and some weights removed...Wow that cheaters cheat so much..next one will sneak in a jet motor...

Some cut their own design and we have a work shop Sunday when a few saws are brought in and the kids can draw the design and grown-ups cut the basic shape....have seen a full size original cube come in at the finals..

Rules should be posted.. original axles/or not.
No oil or lube is a poor rule because it is hard to tell or see the oil or lub..We allow it and even have some at the race free for the asking. We now have the aluminum track and stop counter..I made a wood track way back when and still have a pointy thumb to prove I made it.

Qt:[Life is not about beating the other guy! Get it!] *Still winning is fun and fair/honesty should be taught.

*One should hate to say My kid ended up in the slammer because I taught him(her)to cheat. I know that guy...Kimberly Kelly.. brothers taught him to be the cheater..last time i saw him he was on vacation from his home in Jackson Prison(now closed)..1839 to 1979

jackson prison - Google Search
 








 
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