What's new
What's new

Work needed

Matt@RFR

Titanium
Joined
May 26, 2004
Location
Paradise, Ca
The last 4 years have been frustrating, humbling and downright miserable... and things are coming to a head. Quick background:

Hit with big customer, kept us (and 3-4 other shops) busy 7 days a week for years. I immediately saw how much money was going to other shops and started to look for buildings to expand in to. We searched long and hard, found nothing acceptable to lease or even buy, and finally stumbled on a developer who was getting a project going in our town. We signed up for a new building for less than anything local was listed for, and with renting two bays out my payments will be less than any of the existing shitholes was going to cost to lease. All good, right?

We started looking for buildings to lease over 4 years ago, and this new building has taken almost 1.5 years to get to the point that they are starting finish stuff inside (sheetrock, finish plumbing, etc.) In that 1.5 years, things changed drastically with that big customer and the bottom line is, we are very close to going out of business. The strain that this project has put on my business has been fascinating to watch. And even though I specifically asked how much money out of pocket we would be in total before I signed any papers, I've had to use all of my reserves I built up over the last few years to get the building going and to cover a couple slow spots.

There's no physical way I could fit another machine in the current shop, and no way to expand it since we're not legal to be here in the first place. I put a downpayment on a new machine 10 months ago, and have had an NC bandsaw in storage for much longer than that. Hindsight being what it is, I should have overpaid for one of those shithole rentals years ago, but every time I thought about it, things were looking good to head in another direction so it never made sense at that moment. Knowing what I know now, we would have had the new machine paid off by now, but crystal balls are a real bitch that way.

The irony is that a large motivator for us to expand was to get away from this one big customer making up such a large percentage of our sales. I never liked that and wanted to diversify within the first year, but I couldn't turn their work away and I didn't have any available machine time to work on bringing in new customers, so we were stuck until we could expand.

So that's the sob story in a nutshell. The new buyer at our big customer has taken things in a completely different direction (low prices with no concern for quality) and we are actively getting boxed out. We've still got a ton of work to do (we're booked through the end of March), but at barely-better-than-break-even-prices so I have no choice other than to tank quality (only aesthetics, not accuracy) on purpose to be able to compete, and I HATE that.

We will never be low bidder except maybe on what has ended up being our specialty, which is small, complex, tight tolerance parts in a small production setting (we typically deal with quantities of 1 up to 1500 or so). However I can tell you that we have delivered late exactly twice in the last 8 years (both due to equipment breakdowns), and our attention to detail is next to flawless. Every part is 100% machine chamfered unless otherwise specified, and nothing leaves this shop further than .002" off nominal, no matter how loose the drawing tolerances are. Fit and finish are our top priority.

So now, after coming up mostly empty handed pounding the pavement locally, I get to beg for work here. We excel at long term relationships, and I can provide customer references to back that up if you'd like. RFR Custom Fab | HOME

Equipment:
2017 Brother R650 pallet changer (in less than a month)
2007 Haas VF-2ss, 4 axis
NC bandsaw (when we move)
Micro-Vu 6"x6" video measuring machine
 
I don't have any work to send you but I hope it's okay to offer some suggestions? All of these related to items on the FAQ:

1. Figure out a way to take Paypal and cards! You have a "nerd" there, sick him on it.
2. Don't say things like "we don't like USPS or Fedex". Get the order and pack it carefully. No problems. I ship a lot on those two services and have rarely had problems (usually my fault when it breaks).
3. Your "typical" leadtime of 2 weeks to 3 months is downright scary. That makes me think I'm going to pay extra just to get it in two weeks or wait about 2 months to not.

I'd suggest having someone read it who is more "customer" oriented. To be quite frank, it almost reads as if you don't like a lot of your customers. While I do believe in under-promise and over-deliver, I think your website is just a bit too far skewed towards "we want you to do your business our way" (hence the shipping, payment, leadtime stuff, etc.).

I hope that helps,
The Dude
 
Been in the job shop biz 35 years.

Let the quality suit the job
Let the quality suit the job
Let the quality suit the job
Let the quality suit the job
Let the quality suit the job

YEP!
My drawings have a note on the end of part (Saw cut acceptable). That means I don't want to pay for you to flip the part and finish that end! So to stop this BS I bought a cold saw and cut the damn stock so close or even and tad under size so they had no material to take off. Get a call, the materials is too small, we can't make your parts! You DID notice that the SAW CUT ACCEPTABLE and the fractional dimension means that plus or minus 0.125" works for us right?
 
We make parts for a long term customer that is made out of on-size flat bar. All loose tolerance stuff, but anything finished with something other than a drill is held tight because it takes no extra time. We've already had a thread about this. These parts are made as inexpensively as possible... I even bought a Mr. Deburr machine just for their parts, which helped his pricing quite a bit and made the parts look way better too. To Gary's example, we offered to saw cut these to size but the customer turned that down.

I fully understand not adding costs just for shits, but even simple cheap parts can be made to look nice. That's a lot of what drives how we do things.
 
1. Figure out a way to take Paypal and cards! You have a "nerd" there, sick him on it.
He's been laid off and I have no time, but I'll keep it in mind when we can take a breath.

2. Don't say things like "we don't like USPS or Fedex". Get the order and pack it carefully. No problems. I ship a lot on those two services and have rarely had problems (usually my fault when it breaks).
Point taken, but we are well known for being over cautious packers and FedEx and USPS both have managed to "lose" 3 packages each. UPS has never, ever delivered damaged goods or lost anything, incoming or outgoing.

3. Your "typical" leadtime of 2 weeks to 3 months is downright scary. That makes me think I'm going to pay extra just to get it in two weeks or wait about 2 months to not.
Scary or not, it's the truth. Right now we are scheduled tight right on out to 3/30. We only have weekends in reserve, and I generally charge extra for those. The second machine is meant to do many things for us, one of which is putting more work out in less time. We have done emergency jobs in a day or two, but this costs a LOT. 50 hour days don't come cheap, but it's something I'll do if someone is in real trouble.

I'd suggest having someone read it who is more "customer" oriented. To be quite frank, it almost reads as if you don't like a lot of your customers. While I do believe in under-promise and over-deliver, I think your website is just a bit too far skewed towards "we want you to do your business our way"
I'm sure you're right. As we have time I'll have someone work on these things. I appreciate the feedback.
 
PayPal is easy, it takes 5 minutes to setup and you will be able to accept credit cards, then invoice your customer through the PayPal site, type in shpping info, when the package arrives PayPal releases the payment.
Your 30 days booked, but only work weekends if customer pays extra? Your about to go bankrupt? Dude, start working everyday, including weekends and get those jobs done!

Check out Square for getting set up to accept credit cards.

https://squareup.com/
 
I fully understand not adding costs just for shits, but even simple cheap parts can be made to look nice. That's a lot of what drives how we do things.

I needed a part from our internal toolroom fast.

So second shift receives in the burnout, and ignoring my print, my notes, my speaking with the foreman....toss's it into
the anneal furnace and let's it go all night.

First shift, "let's grind both sidse to make it look pretty"....2 days later I get my part.....

It didn't need annealed, it didn't need ground, it needed a couple of tapped holes.

"Don't that part look nice" said the toolmaker ?

"It looks terrible" I said.

"Why is that ?" he asked

"Cause you charged up 2 days of machine time, and delivered it 2 days late"
 
Your 30 days booked, but only work weekends if customer pays extra? Your about to go bankrupt? Dude, start working everyday, including weekends and get those jobs done!
Alan, weekends are currently reserved for prototyping and design for a couple product ideas that I've been working on. My wife says I haven't had a weekend off in over 3 years. I think I'm working plenty.
 
Alan, weekends are currently reserved for prototyping and design for a couple product ideas that I've been working on. My wife says I haven't had a weekend off in over 3 years. I think I'm working plenty.

I can not work on weekends !!!!

Those days are reserved for playing tennis on the deck of the Titanic.
 
Alan, weekends are currently reserved for prototyping and design for a couple product ideas that I've been working on. My wife says I haven't had a weekend off in over 3 years. I think I'm working plenty.


So, when exactly doo you think that you would have a chance to run some new-found werk?


--------------------

Drainin' the Swamp!
Ox
 
That's nice, but "product ideas", don't pay bills until you have customers that want those products. I would focus on getting jobs that are booked completed and out the door on the weekends, and when I was caught up or slow, then I would work on " product ideas".

Alan, weekends are currently reserved for prototyping and design for a couple product ideas that I've been working on. My wife says I haven't had a weekend off in over 3 years. I think I'm working plenty.
 
Looking at your equipment list it appears you have only one machine, the Haas. Do you suppose you're turning away potential customers with no turning? Maybe cancel the Brother, get a turning center instead?

Also, your company has the word "fab" in the name. If I was searching through a directory of shops to find a "machine" shop I probably would pass over you without a look because I wasn't looking for a "fab" shop.

I may have made a suggestion in your other thread when you were asking for comments on your website. Anyway, I'll say it again here. Get rid of the "long story" in the "Who We Are" section. Itemizing past problems does not impress potential customer, at least not for me.


In your FAQ section, I wonder if I'm the only who gets a sense of "attitude" there. Kind of "a do it my way or not at all" in payment methods, shipping, engraving logos, aircraft/military and billet topics.


Good point. If "Fab" is is your name, and you are a ".002 or die" mentality, those two don't seem to jive.


------------------

Drainin' the Swamp!
Ox
 
I design widgets and send out RFQ's (including to members on this forum). So I'm on the buying end of things.

Your FAQ is a huge problem. It's comes off as patronizing. You either need to re-work that entire section or get rid of it. The 2 weeks - 3 months TAT would never work for me.

The lack of a lathe is also a big problem. Probably 95% of the parts I work with are round. I couldn't send an RFQ to a shop that didn't have a legitimate turning capacity.
 








 
Back
Top