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Any hope of reviving a neglected forklift battery?

Cannonmn

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Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Vehicle: Hyster electric pallet jack

Battery: 24-volt type 12-d100-13, 600 a-h at 6 hr rate.

Symptoms: Meter reads about 12 volts now, several cells I checked had no liquid visible, not aware of operating history but I suspect machine has been idle for a good while, maybe years.

Question: Is battery hopelessly dead and only good for a core trade-in, or should I add distilled water, pray, charge it, and see if it'll revive?
 
Vehicle: Hyster electric pallet jack

Battery: 24-volt type 12-d100-13, 600 a-h at 6 hr rate.

Symptoms: Meter reads about 12 volts now, several cells I checked had no liquid visible, not aware of operating history but I suspect machine has been idle for a good while, maybe years.

Question: Is battery hopelessly dead and only good for a core trade-in, or should I add distilled water, pray, charge it, and see if it'll revive?

I would think the first step would be to add distilled water to bring the levels up, then try charging
 
If you can, you'll have better luck than I ever have.

I've been told by "battery people" that any part of the plates that gets above the electrolyte level is dead and can never be revived. I don't know how true that is but I do know that any battery I've ever tried to revive with plates showing didn't turn out well.
 
I would think the first step would be to add distilled water to bring the levels up, then try charging

The localHyster rep stopped by to meet, suggested same but since "new" 24v charger isn't here yet, he suggested charging or tickling 6 cells at a time with car-type 12v charger. I'm trying that, and after one day on each set of 6 cells, the tiny charger got the battery to show 18 v. We'll keep alternating ends of the battery every day or two. No idea if battery will take full or near full charge after we get the 24v. Charger, but the experiment is somewhat encouraging.
 
They have those fancy little chargers now for car battery's... I don't remember the name,
but I need one (or 2). They have a "refurb" or something option on them.. They drain the
battery down to flat out fucking dead, and then re-charge opposite polarity.. All the shit falls
off the plates, then drain it dead again and recharge proper polarity..

I've never used one, I don't know how well they work at reconditioning.. Maybe you could do half and half(12v and
12V), and then you've got a cool little smart charger for your other toys..

One thing I've heard is as the shit falls off the plates, if you don't have dead space down at the bottom, you
can short the whole damn thing out.

The other thing.. I'm assuming you are more of a machine shop than a warehouse.. Get a couple car or RV or
marine batteries.. You aren't trying to run it ALL day on a single charge.

Some more food for thought. I've got an electric pallet jack here.. Its been sitting out back for years..
For a machine shop, they are too bulky and way too fast for moving stuff around machines. I've got a little
3 foot by 20 inch manual jack.. Fricken thing is awesome for moving material around, especially when it comes
in on small pallets...

My electric pallet jack.. It'll get a new life at some point.. Its an electric drive motor and control and
an electric hydraulic pump.. It'll make a fun toy of some kind at some point.
 
we have an old hyster with a bad battery, I can run it for about an hour before it dies. I have been using it like this for five years. I pick up metal from the truck and drive it into the shop twice a week. I charge it once a week maybe. I had the battery serviced and he told me it was shot and I needed a new one. I am still using it. I payed 2 grand for the five thousand pound lift.
 
They have those fancy little chargers now for car battery's... I don't remember the name,
but I need one (or 2). They have a "refurb" or something option on them.. They drain the
battery down to flat out fucking dead, and then re-charge opposite polarity.. All the shit falls
off the plates, then drain it dead again and recharge proper polarity..

I've never used one, I don't know how well they work at reconditioning.. Maybe you could do half and half(12v and
12V), and then you've got a cool little smart charger for your other toys..

One thing I've heard is as the shit falls off the plates, if you don't have dead space down at the bottom, you
can short the whole damn thing out.

The other thing.. I'm assuming you are more of a machine shop than a warehouse.. Get a couple car or RV or
marine batteries.. You aren't trying to run it ALL day on a single charge.

Some more food for thought. I've got an electric pallet jack here.. Its been sitting out back for years..
For a machine shop, they are too bulky and way too fast for moving stuff around machines. I've got a little
3 foot by 20 inch manual jack.. Fricken thing is awesome for moving material around, especially when it comes
in on small pallets...

My electric pallet jack.. It'll get a new life at some point.. Its an electric drive motor and control and
an electric hydraulic pump.. It'll make a fun toy of some kind at some point.
Thanks, I think some others suggested using RV batteries or maybe golf cart batteries. I asked a local dealer with decades of experience in electric vehicles and he was sure the high current draw of this 8000 lb. capacity pallet jack would destroy those batteries quickly. I don't know whose Opinion is right so I'd particularly like to hear from anyone who has actually powered a big-battery electric vehicle with, say, a pair of 135 AH or smaller RV/marine deep-cycle batteries.
 
Thanks, I think some others suggested using RV batteries or maybe golf cart batteries. I asked a local dealer with decades of experience in electric vehicles and he was sure the high current draw of this 8000 lb. capacity pallet jack would destroy those batteries quickly. I don't know whose Opinion is right so I'd particularly like to hear from anyone who has actually powered a big-battery electric vehicle with, say, a pair of 135 AH or smaller RV/marine deep-cycle batteries.

We used 4 12v deep cycle batteries. wired 2 in parallel. Then wired the paralleled batteries in series to get 24v. It never got used all day but it held up fine for unloading trucks and general moving stuff around.
 
Cannonmn,you should try charging the old batteries, don't fill them to the top with distilled water, because you'll dilute sulfuric acid too much, fill them little charge them, then again fill little, if they don't hold a charge, i would suggest you upgrade the batteries with used set from hybrid cars, cheap good quality and last double than any lead acid battery.
 
We used 4 12v deep cycle batteries. wired 2 in parallel. Then wired the paralleled batteries in series to get 24v. It never got used all day but it held up fine for unloading trucks and general moving stuff around.

Thanks, useful info! Dunno exactly what current draw of the vehicle u mention but probably somewhat similar a load or close enuf for this comparison. A quick cost study: Walmart offering for $240. Ea. X 4 = $960., very roughly half the cost of the cheapest "regular" type 600 AH battery I may need. Specs from Wally ad: ML125-12 SLA is a 12V 125AH Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) rechargeable maintenance free battery.
Dimensions: 13.00 inches x 7.00 inches x 8.50 inches. I don't know if there's any problem using the SLA type battery or not, seems like not having to worry about watering them would be an advantage.

Our use will be sporadic, a few hrs a week probably, so I'd use the old battery if it works for that, and may try the RV/marine multi-battery approach if not. I'm definitely going to try all other options before even seriously considering blowing $2k+ on a new battery.

I got to like electric pallet jacks while hanging around or helping a machinery dealer who used one for "everything" and took it with him in a trailer for machinery pickup/delivery. He didn't even own a manual pallet jack (did have propane forklift though.) I helped tow/slide many heavy machines across the concrete using only a chain and his old electric pallet jack.
 
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Cannonmn,you should try charging the old batteries, don't fill them to the top with distilled water, because you'll dilute sulfuric acid too much, fill them little charge them, then again fill little, if they don't hold a charge, i would suggest you upgrade the batteries with used set from hybrid cars, cheap good quality and last double than any lead acid battery.

Thanks but battery has been filled to the sight plates already. If I had more time and money I'd investigate the hybrid car batteries but as it stands I'm ignorant regarding their charging equipment/procedures/costs; am barely conversant in lead-acid technology and will have to stay with that this time around.
 
Thanks, useful info! Dunno exactly what current draw of the vehicle u mention but probably somewhat similar a load or close enuf for this comparison. A quick cost study: Walmart offering for $240. Ea. X 4 = $960., very roughly half the cost of the cheapest "regular" type 600 AH battery I may need. Specs from Wally ad: ML125-12 SLA is a 12V 125AH Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) rechargeable maintenance free battery.
Dimensions: 13.00 inches x 7.00 inches x 8.50 inches. I don't know if there's any problem using the SLA type battery or not, seems like not having to worry about watering them would be an advantage.

If quality is defined as meets specifications, Wally or Saam's club have the highest quality batteries made. I went the cheap route for a while.

If Wally sold it as a 24 month battery, it will last 24 months. But never 26. The club also had larger batteries such as 4D and 8D. They might have been 12 month warranty and would last two summers and one winter. But if you installed them before winter, they wouldn't last the second winter.

I have since decided I can't afford cheap batteries.
 
You will never bring a stressed battery back to full capacity but the approach you are using is good. Charge for a while, let rest for a day or so and then charge again. What you are trying to do is get excess sulfates off the plates and back into solution. When it goes back into use charge it more frequently because deep discharge will do more damage. With care, including carefully maintaining electrolyte levels you may get years of use.

Damaged cells can be replaced but that is usually best left to pros. The battery must rest overnight to avoid hydrogen concentration and then the cell connectors are unsoldered, the cell(s) replaced and usually new cell connectors soldered on. It requires use of a torch which is why no hydrogen can be present.
 
Wow......I've heard some really bad advice here. Not all batteries are the same, even within the same chemistry family. Yes, an amp is an amp and a volt is a volt, but the amp hour rating is not always the same. It depends on the rating test used. The construction of lead/acid batteries can be very different. Different constructions exist because each construction has its own attributes. Traction motor batteries use thick lead plates and are amp/hour tested at nominal usage current over a 6 hour limit. Marine batteries, although also classified as deep cycle, are tested over a 24 hour low amperage discharge rate. High discharge rate, automotive type batteries use a very thin folded fabric reinforced plate construction reflecting the high surface area requirement to support a several hundred amp high discharge rate. Functionally, ion migration from the plates is only available from the plate surface. It takes time for the charged ions to migrate from inside the plate to be available for discharge at the surface, so the surface area to plate depth ratio is tailored for a given usage. Battery usage outside its design envelope will cause a much shortened life span. A good rule of thumb is the charge rate should optimally not exceed 10% of its amp/hour rating. Slower charging is not an issue, but faster is. So, using a forklift battery charger on a stack of marine batteries may very well exceed the maximum charge rate of the marine batteries.

Many of you think that lead/acid batteries are not as good as say other more modern battery chemistries like Lithium Phosphate. You could not be more incorrect. LiPo batteries are very temperature sensitive and their performance really falls off below 10* C. Lead/Acid batteries can work well at -20C. Every battery chemistry requires its own charger tailored to that chemistry.......never mix the chargers.

So, yeah, you can misuse batteries, as advised by others in this thread, but you're only fooling yourself.
 
Wow......I've heard some really bad advice here. Not all batteries are the same, even within the same chemistry family. Yes, an amp is an amp and a volt is a volt, but the amp hour rating is not always the same. It depends on the rating test used. The construction of lead/acid batteries can be very different. Different constructions exist because each construction has its own attributes. Traction motor batteries use thick lead plates and are amp/hour tested at nominal usage current over a 6 hour limit. Marine batteries, although also classified as deep cycle, are tested over a 24 hour low amperage discharge rate. High discharge rate, automotive type batteries use a very thin folded fabric reinforced plate construction reflecting the high surface area requirement to support a several hundred amp high discharge rate. Functionally, ion migration from the plates is only available from the plate surface. It takes time for the charged ions to migrate from inside the plate to be available for discharge at the surface, so the surface area to plate depth ratio is tailored for a given usage. Battery usage outside its design envelope will cause a much shortened life span. A good rule of thumb is the charge rate should optimally not exceed 10% of its amp/hour rating. Slower charging is not an issue, but faster is. So, using a forklift battery charger on a stack of marine batteries may very well exceed the maximum charge rate of the marine batteries.

Many of you think that lead/acid batteries are not as good as say other more modern battery chemistries like Lithium Phosphate. You could not be more incorrect. LiPo batteries are very temperature sensitive and their performance really falls off below 10* C. Lead/Acid batteries can work well at -20C. Every battery chemistry requires its own charger tailored to that chemistry.......never mix the chargers.

So, yeah, you can misuse batteries, as advised by others in this thread, but you're only fooling yourself.

Flooded cells with removable caps are all the same basic chemistry. Batteries intended for deep discharge service have greater spacing between the plates to prevent physical damage as sulfates accumulate. This discussion, AFAIK, was 100% about lead-acid batteries. Other than capacity, where too great charging currents can damage smaller batteries the only difference in lift batteries is sealed or refillable. The sealed cells require a different design charger that is gentler, as many older chargers intended for refillable cells may damage them.
 
We used 3 8D batteries in a lift and it worked JUST FINE!

Starting batteries are made for high starting currents while float service batteries made for emergency service.

What ruins car batteries in a forklift is using the original charger.

Most lead acid batteries can take a charge rate of 1C where C is the 8 hour rated amp hours and forklift battery design usually is such to be greater than usual as they need to be charged rapidly as they are useless while charging.

Forklift has a 600 amp battery and some chargers can charge greater than 200 amps.

An 8D battery can output 1400 to 1700 amps for starring but is rated maybe 140 to 175 amp hours and designed for maybe 50 amp maximum rate of charge.

Using a 200 amp charger will be equaling the batteries every time resulting in a very short and painful life.

For a 24 volt intermittent duty device seek out a charger for a wheel chair as they are all over the place now and can be found for a song.

They usually are well designed and being built for VRLA batteries they. Are far better for the battery.

For yours continue to charge with automotive charger and monitor the water level.

It could take a week or 2 since you are below empty...

Empty is 1.75 volts per cell and full is 2.25 while floating.

It seems the battery is recovering so continue.

Check voltage across each cell and if all are close to same you are good.

One higher or lower by 0.5 volts is a problem.

Also check specific gravity and same rule applies...All should be close to same.





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Constant current charger will revive it (assuming of course it is refilled with municipal* or distilled water) , but will never be like new.....if it gave 6 hours straight service when new it might give 1 hour service after constant current charged....but it does work...i have one I used on 25 year old pallet jack batteries for many years.


Alternative is four new 6 volt Trojan golf cart batteries, which would cost about $550. Would have the advantage of not being as tall and therefore getting under obstacles the regular battery might hit and also being lighter you could lift more than normal pallet jack capacity.

Constant current charger - Stablemate™- Portable Rental - Applied Energy Solutions

*distilled water for wet cell batteries is over rated...most city water is pure enough.
 
Hate to argue with above but we will...

Some city water is heavily treated surface water that is considered soft and low mineral content while others like ours come from 400 ft deep wells that have a great taste and plenty of minerals that can bind to the parts in the battery.

If chlorine or fluoride are added they introduce other issues.

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Hate to argue with above but we will...

Some city water is heavily treated surface water that is considered soft and low mineral content while others like ours come from 400 ft deep wells that have a great taste and plenty of minerals that can bind to the parts in the battery.

If chlorine or fluoride are added they introduce other issues.
The operative word is "most"..... probably true that some city water is harmful but an industrial battery supply old timer in Greenville, SC once told me some examples of electric forklift batteries lasting 20 years using city water.
 
Having family in Greenville we know the water there is very soft so it may be fine so his experience and luck may be fine.

But given the cost of a forklift battery it would not be wise to try it.

Car type batteries the gamble is minimal as the cost is small.

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