What's new
What's new

CAD for use in machinery moving

m16ty

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 11, 2016
I started to post this in the CAD forum but thought it may be better suited here and most of the threads in the CAD forum are talking over my head.

I'll preface this by saying I know zero about CAD, never used it and don't even know where to begin. I am interested in learning though.

What we are running into more of in our machinery moving business is complex jobs in very tight quarters. What I end up doing is scaling the plant layout on a piece of paper and taking measurements off that to develop a rigging plan that will work. I know some of my competitors are starting to use CAD. I'm sure CAD would make it much easier and less chance for mistakes but I know absolutely nothing about it. I guess what I'm looking for is pointers and any info on how to get started.
 
I've done this for both 2D and 3D movements, and it's pretty useful. Are you mostly dealing with fitting things through aisles, or do you need to deal with 3D problems like fitting a crane boom inside a building?

It can be tricky depending on how you do your sketches. If you use horizontal/vertical constraints, you then can't rotate the sketch, which is a problem when you need to turn the corner. There are workarounds to this though.
 
I used to work in a big plant and they did all of the floor layouts in AutoCAD. Today, you can get a program like DraftSight for free that is basically the same as old school 2D AutoCAD.

If you want 3D, that's another story.
 
I recommend you try DraftSite. It a more or less an Autocad clone. You can sign up with them and use it for free. I think the free version you don't get a few things and you need to re-register on their site once in a while. It can save autocad format files too.
 
I laid out my shop floor in 2D mechanical CAD (Solid Edge Draft module) then drew the outlines of my machines and made cutouts of them, and used the cutouts to lay out the shop. Still use them.

Later on (about 10 years ago) I used Broderbund 3d Home architect (3D Home Architect Deluxe 3 3. PC CD plan design build house interior exterior | eBay) to draw a home and garage remodel, and afterward wanted to throw rocks at the 2D mechanical CAD for this purpose. I could quickly draw walls and doors and windows in 2D , place some furniture and instantly do a virtual walkthrough of the result. There are even better inexpensive architectural modeling softwares that I think would be excellent for this. One I think I'd look at now is Sketchup.
 
Going by the handful of CAD programs I've run, they are pretty simple and intuitive to learn. 2D atleast, 3D can be a lot more tricky.

I get AutoCAD for free and that's what I like for 2D drawing, it's what I started with and know fairly well. They made me learn CreoParametic last year, not sure how widespread that is in the real world, but it's super nice for making fast 3D sketches. I found it a little clumsy for drawing parts to size, but that may just be lack of practice.
 
I've done this for both 2D and 3D movements, and it's pretty useful. Are you mostly dealing with fitting things through aisles, or do you need to deal with 3D problems like fitting a crane boom inside a building?

It can be tricky depending on how you do your sketches. If you use horizontal/vertical constraints, you then can't rotate the sketch, which is a problem when you need to turn the corner. There are workarounds to this though.

We run into isle constraints as well as headroom constraints with booms and whatnot. Just thinking out loud, but I'm wondering if I could do two drawings in 2D to cover the isles and the headroom?

Since I'm such a novice at drawing stuff on a computer, I'm thinking I may need to start with a simple 2D program and go from there after I get the hang of it.
 
I wonder if there are any existing files of machine outlines you could borrow into the program? I mean for real machines not a generic lathe or milling machine outline. Problem will be the handle wheel that sticks out beyond main body of the machine will limit the move. and that will not be shown on a basic foundation plan.
I believe Grizzly has a free home shop layout program with outlines of many of their bigger tools. might be worth playing with that for free to see if it may be something to put some more efforttime into with a real program.
Bill D
 
If your thinking you need cad get a cad guy. Keep doing what you know best and let them work with what they know best.

If your cad guy is good a they will know stuff about how to do what you need so fast its almost real time. I was a cad guy when my employer wanted to go lean. I would sit in the back of meetings running the computer and cad software. As they would spit ball ideas I would update the plant layout while the meeting was still going on and could give them a nearly real time vision of the changes they proposed. I'm sure that your stuff is more complex then what I was doing but a cad guy can most likely run circles around you for a long time while your trying to get up to speed.
 
Just recently had the kitchen remodeled. The stone countertop guys walked in with a wireless 3-d digitizer and mapped out the countertop CAD drawings on-site, with the digitizer and a laptop, in about an hour tops. He just took his 'clicker' to each corner or critical point, pushed the button, and it was automagically entered into the CAD file. This guy was freelance, and worked with designers, contractors, and some marble fab companies.

Finding a guy like that who could walk into a space, and take data points for both the aisle dimensions/constraints, the equipment to be moved, and the rigging used to move it would be a pretty quick and direct approach. Pay by the hour/job, with no direct equipment/software/benefits expense and you can hit the ground running.

Chip
 
Try Microsoft Vizio. You can draw up stuff to scale and see how it fits.

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk

Have you used a recent version? I looked for a new copy recently, and it seemed that all it does now is graphing and flow charts and such.
 
It's a lot more money and trouble for 3D software but I'd suggest getting this instead of going 2D. Some folks have trouble doing the transition to 3D and that also means you have to forget what you learned for 2D. I worked in the Systems Group for a major "snack cake" bakery (name withheld) that had me not only designing larger components/systems but also overseeing the installation in the plant. There were many times when 2D just wasn't going to cut it when it came time for installation in tight quarters. I had to take the components (created in CAD) and move them through the halls/rooms (also created in CAD) to determine if there was enough real estate to do this, adjusting the design to suit the available space. I would imagine that this aspect is similar to your application. I've used 2D and find it to be nowhere near as useful as 3D for applications where you need to evaluate a 3D world. Make a simple envelope of the machine in CAD (few details are needed), make another of the room and things that may crowd you, put both in an assembly model. You can then limit the constraints and watch the machine model move through the halls/room as you wish. Stop, zoom in, change the viewing angle, and measure just how much room there is or what angle the crane boom needs to be. I did several installs of things I designed that would not have been possible without 3D software. This is just my opinion of course but when it gets cramped and the move is uncertain the paper models and 2D is just a bit too "iffy" for when a lot of money is on the line. Hope this helped, YMMV.
 
What does a decent 3D program cost? My research says $1,400 a year. While I don't mind dumping some coin on a decent program, $1,400 a year isn't feasible, no more than I would use it.
 
What does a decent 3D program cost? My research says $1,400 a year. While I don't mind dumping some coin on a decent program, $1,400 a year isn't feasible, no more than I would use it.

You can get into Fusion 360 for free or a minimal fee if you make more than $100K (deals for $25/year are available throughout the year). This isn't the best CAD software but you can certainly accomplish what you are trying to do easily after you learn the software (lots of vids on YouTube). I use SolidWorks and the version I run is like around $8k and then $2k/year in maintenance. If you ever need a CAD guy for short projects I can get things done pretty efficiently.
 
What does a decent 3D program cost? My research says $1,400 a year. While I don't mind dumping some coin on a decent program, $1,400 a year isn't feasible, no more than I would use it.

my solidworks license - for a new seat you are talking $5k + about 1400 annual software maintenance. It will draw about anything you want to draw.

for more simplistic stuff I have a seat of autocad 2007 2d off amazon- perpetual license ( buy it once and no more bills), I think I paid $300.00

for occasional use, find a subcontractor to do the cad....
 
You don't need full zoot mechanical engineering CAD to simulate moving large objects unless you're doing finite element analysis of the rigging and such. I linked earlier to a system for $50, Sketchup which would be better is $695 for the pro version. I'd suggest downloading a free demo of it or buying a <$100 home version of something to see if it's going to fit your expectations of how you will use CAD.The cheap stuff can be better for some applications than the expensive stuff. I'd rather not have to draw doors, if can get a cheap system that has built in door menus or I can get downloadable door files for free.
 
Haven't used the software MUD is talking about but if it does work (try the demo version first) then it does make more sense to use the cheapest 3D software you can find. He's also right that you don't need full blown 3D software like SolidWorks, Creo, or Catia. Those programs have a steeper learning curve and will have more capability than you'll need, although it could open other doors...

No you don't have to spend the $1400 a year for the latest version, you're using it internally so you're the only one that will need to see the files. I bought a seat and have NOT spent the yearly maintenance fees, don't need to. You can get a free demo, or student version for less than $300 and it will do (perhaps) everything you need it to do, if I understand your application correctly. You may have to hunt around a bit for a bargain/free/student/home version but it you WILL NOT have to drop big coin for what you're looking for. Try what MUD has suggested, if that doesn't work then try SolidWorks as it's fairly easy to learn with some practice. Do NOT attempt Catia (too capable/ too big) or Creo (my daily nemesis...) as that will only serve to chew up too much time to get rolling. I suggested SolidWorks only because I know it will work for you, try what MUD suggested first as it's fairly cheap and sounds like the learning curve isn't too bad. Find a few free lessons on the internet and then try doing what you need it to do as soon as you have a handle on how to create things in the software. As Dr. Ward once told the class, "There is no substitute for tube time", meaning play with the software as often as possible. If you have questions do stop in here. Post your results and good luck.
 
You can do the same thing with a piece of paper, a ruler, and some scissors. It's not as much fun tho, I guess ...
 








 
Back
Top