Did they used to way under-rate forklifts? No way this is only 8K...

Parkerbender · Jul 16, 2017

I am looking for a forklift up in KC so I don't have to rent one to move myself, and I want a big one so then when I finally get moved then I have enough lift to move my machines or if I buy something, etc. Anyway, I need like 14K of lift. Not sure that this would get around that without some serious weight racks, but how in the heck is it only an 8K lift? My little 5K guy would fit in that thing's pocket!

8 lb Clark Forklift - heavy equipment - by owner - sale

Did they used to way under-rate them? Also, any of you have experience with putting a weight rack on a lift? The front half of that thing certainly looks stout enough to lift what I have, if it just wouldn't tip...

Monarchist · Jul 16, 2017

Parkerbender said:
I am looking for a forklift up in KC so I don't have to rent one to move myself, and I want a big one so then when I finally get moved then I have enough lift to move my machines or if I buy something, etc. Anyway, I need like 14K of lift. Not sure that this would get around that without some serious weight racks, but how in the heck is it only an 8K lift? My little 5K guy would fit in that thing's pocket!

8 lb Clark Forklift - heavy equipment - by owner - sale

Did they used to way under-rate them? Also, any of you have experience with putting a weight rack on a lift? The front half of that thing certainly looks stout enough to lift what I have, if it just wouldn't tip...

Dunno what the "official" nomenclature is, but my Corps of Engineers / First Log derived classification is "warehouse", "yard", and "rough terrain".

IOW - if your 5K is meant for flat, dry, indoor concrete, low/no risk of a wheel dropping into a mud-hole, and this 8K is rated for firm, flat, well-packed Earth & Gravel, in the wet as well as dry days, odd mudholes included, then you don' wanna know how much larger-yet even a 4K "Anthony" rough-terrain all-wheel-steer-plus-plus FL that can operate in a rice paddy or on a hillside amongst shot-up forest has to get. Nor buy tires or fuel for one.

And don't expect the hydraulics on the mast of this 8K Clark to carry nearly double their rating, either.

idacal · Jul 16, 2017

measure the outside diameter of the lifting cylinders then guestimate wall thickness by the heaviest honed tubing available in that outside diameter. now divide by the number of stages that forklift lifts on that cylinder and multiply by the psi now you have the brute force lifting ability of that forklift in a perfect world with enough weight on the butt. dump a forklift on its nose on a decent high lift once (usually from tilting) and you will do everything you can to make sure it never happens again because once it starts you are in for a ride that ends with your head in the roll rack

steve45 · Jul 16, 2017

Mine is rated for 2500 pounds. Try to lift more than that and it will do wheelies.

tdmidget · Jul 16, 2017

That machine has the wrong mast arrangement for what you want, in addition to other issues. Look at the bottom stage of the lift cylinder, no way you want to overload that little noodle.
Adding counterweight? unless a one time thing engineering is required. Then the hydraulics may be inadequate or marginal.
For a quick evaluation, weigh the steering axle. Consider your projected load center. You can calculate whether or not it has the required ass to pick your load. The hydraulics may still be inadequate. Increased stress will mean more frequent inspections and maintenance.
Before adding counterweight, consider the liability if you have a failure. That's why it is said that riggers move stuff for free, they just charge you for the insurance.

Steve in SoCal · Jul 16, 2017

I have a Hyster forklift that is nearly the same size and configuration. My forklift has single tires like the one shown, they are the limiting factor. Hyster has a forklift that is rated at 9 or 10K with dual front wheels and a bit larger counter weight. Another problem you will have trying to lift a 14K machine is load center. That will compound the need for extra counter weight and more axle loading Even if the mast and hydraulics can lift it, they should, the weight and weight transfer onto the axle is deal killer.

Steve

traditional-tools · Jul 17, 2017

Steve in SoCal said:
I have a Hyster forklift that is nearly the same size and configuration. My forklift has single tires like the one shown, they are the limiting factor. Hyster has a forklift that is rated at 9 or 10K with dual front wheels and a bit larger counter weight. Another problem you will have trying to lift a 14K machine is load center. That will compound the need for extra counter weight and more axle loading Even if the mast and hydraulics can lift it, they should, the weight and weight transfer onto the axle is deal killer.

Hyster made a life like you mention that would do 15,000 lbs. and ran off propane.

The lift shown will most certainly only handle 8000 lbs. on the first stage. Looks like a 12,000 lbs. lift, I wouldn't want to lift 8000 lbs. very high with it, and certainly wouldn't tilt the mast forward if it can be tilted.

tdmidget · Jul 17, 2017

Also this machine appears to have pneumatic tires. They need to be replaced with solid or cushion tires if you want to handle really heavy loads. Even a couple of feet in the air and a tire takes a shit and it may be "game over, you lose"

Scruffy887 · Jul 17, 2017

tdmidget said:
Also this machine appears to have pneumatic tires. They need to be replaced with solid or cushion tires if you want to handle really heavy loads. Even a couple of feet in the air and a tire takes a shit and it may be "game over, you lose"

Front tires and wheels are the issue here. Because of the tire diameter the center of the front axle is pushed farther away from the mast. That machine is a cushion tire machine made for occasional hard packed dirt use. Is is not made for smaller solid rubber tires and even if you could fit them, axle center is still where it is. Load limit will not change.

Milacron · Jul 17, 2017

Parkerbender said:
I am looking for a forklift up in KC so I don't have to rent one to move myself, and I want a big one so then when I finally get moved then I have enough lift to move my machines or if I buy something, etc. Anyway, I need like 14K of lift. Not sure that this would get around that without some serious weight racks, but how in the heck is it only an 8K lift? My little 5K guy would fit in that thing's pocket!

8 lb Clark Forklift - heavy equipment - by owner - sale

I'll bet your 5K is cushion tire whereas that one is pneumatic tire, hence the distance from center of drive wheels to fork carriage is much greater and therefore the entire machine has to be much larger. I have a Hyster 8K cushion tire with added counterweight that will lift 9,500 lbs that is way smaller than that pneumatic Clark as well.

The physical size difference get's really noticeable at 15,000 lb and more where a 15K pneumatic is a huge monster compared to a 15K cushion tire "rigger type" forklift.

126311d1420499492-can-hyster-8k-boxcar-special-forklift-lift-9-200-lb-turning-center-photo-1-.jpg

Notice how the 3" steel plate extra counterweight was done so perfectly that neither I nor the dealer that sold me the machine even noticed it....we both figured that was just the way Hyster did it back then....but realized years later, nope, that was added.

Monarchist · Jul 17, 2017

Milacron said:
The physical size difference get's really noticeable at 15,000 lb and more where a 15K pneumatic is a huge monster compared to a 15K cushion tire "rigger type" forklift.

Here's another.

http://www.rockanddirt.com/aucsearch?method=detail&id=1151616&type=E

That's a later version of one of the six FL on my GI "Heavy" license back in the day, and NOT a favorite. It had a longer body and far worse visibility than several of the others in the motor pool.

Back to basics.. Forklifts are not ordinarily "under" rated. The rating just takes in a lot more factors than dead-flat, hard and strong surface, ideal-condition, "straight" lift alone.

MANY of us 'ere are actually better-served with OWNING nothing more complicated than a decent pallet jack or 'stacker', ELSE a SMALL FL. 2K "Big Joe". 3K electric FL. Etc.

Renting when you need bigger usually means you can get a type and lift capacity fit that is "just right" or safely OVER sized, not UNDER sized for any given task, load type, and surface under-wheel. Also of a machine that is in far better condition than many of us care to invest in maintaining.

Lower risk. No f*****g around. Job is done faster and more safely. You get "back to business" - which is usually NOT playing with effing lift-trucks, nor finding a decent way to store them without deterioration.

You want to "invest" in a FL, first put the money into a formal operator training course so a rental agency has reason to trust you with their costly equipment.

Odds of ruining loads or damaging carrier vehicles - not to mention living longer without becoming maimed - also improve. Greatly so.

ANY FL can hurt or kill folks and/or damage all sorts of stuff - buildings and vehicles as well as goods.

Simple wheelbarrow substitutes, they are not.

metlmunchr · Jul 17, 2017

We've got a 6K Towmotor pneumatic that's a bit smaller than that Clark, and a 12K Yale pneumatic that's a bunch bigger and also has duals on the front.

I've handled 13,200 with the Yale on concrete, but the tail end is light enough that you can't do any sharp turning.

The military has/had a lot of grossly underrated lifts. We've got a Baker pneumatic that's ex military, rated @ 15K. It'll lift 20K and drive away with it like its nothing. Like Milacron said, it's a monster as compared to a hard tire rigging lift of the same capacity.

Added: Most common lifts like that Clark are rated at a 2 ft load center, and most large machine tools can't be lifted in a manner that keeps the CG within 2 ft of the mast. so its not unusual to need a lift with substantially more rated capacity than the actual load you're handling.

DDoug · Jul 17, 2017

Just do what every forklift abuser does.....crank down on the pressure relief valve.

And make sure you use "vice grips" to do it.... :skep:

Monarchist · Jul 17, 2017

metlmunchr said:
We've got a 6K Towmotor pneumatic that's a bit smaller than that Clark, and a 12K Yale pneumatic that's a bunch bigger and also has duals on the front.

I've handled 13,200 with the Yale on concrete, but the tail end is light enough that you can't do any sharp turning.

The military has/had a lot of grossly underrated lifts. We've got a Baker pneumatic that's ex military, rated @ 15K. It'll lift 20K and drive away with it like its nothing. Like Milacron said, it's a monster as compared to a hard tire rigging lift of the same capacity.

Added: Most common lifts like that Clark are rated at a 2 ft load center, and most large machine tools can't be lifted in a manner that keeps the CG within 2 ft of the mast. so its not unusual to need a lift with substantially more rated capacity than the actual load you're handling.

15K Baker was our preferred go-to when full pallets of 7 cu meter O2 cylinders came in.

Otherwise we had our own 4K Towmotor "short mast" for loose cylinders. Not that we had to work inside of trailers or Conex containers - which it was designed to do. Just Easier to keep weary operators of the little one from lifting the sunroof over the compressed-gas storage pads!

Surface was packed Laterite. Low-grade Iron-ore AKA rust-dust dry season, or the G'damndest greasiest mud, wet season. And on a slope for drainage, of course.

Pneumatic tires? Essential back in that era.

Those on a FL only resembled automotive or even truck tires in being 'round'.

Tough, stiff, hard to find and harder to change SOB's with many, many ply construction that made them just short of bullet-proof.

tdmidget · Jul 17, 2017

Scruffy887 said:
Front tires and wheels are the issue here. Because of the tire diameter the center of the front axle is pushed farther away from the mast. That machine is a cushion tire machine made for occasional hard packed dirt use. Is is not made for smaller solid rubber tires and even if you could fit them, axle center is still where it is. Load limit will not change.

"Cushion" tires ARE solid tires.
Forklift Tires for IC cushion - pneumatics - electric indoor-outdoor and more

Steve in SoCal · Jul 17, 2017

Here is a good example of pneumatic tire fork lifts. The first one is the same model I have, it has single front wheels. The second lift is the same body size but, a higher capacity lift, it has dual front wheels. 8K seems to be the cut off for single pneumatic tires on fork lifts.

HYSTER PNEUMATIC H7C 81 LB FORKLIFT LIFT TRUCK 66 INCH FORKS | eBay

Hyster Forklift Unknown Year (1968 - 197) and Model (H8C) SOLD AS IS | eBay

Monarchist · Jul 17, 2017

Steve in SoCal said:
8K seems to be the cut off for single pneumatic tires on fork lifts.

4K Towmoter had duals. Not sure it was "Standard A" GI stock, though. Yellow, not Olive-drab, but then again "First Log", Saigon Depot, late 1960's grabbed anything useful we could lay hands on "MIL spec" or otherwise.

Side note. Had to convert my M151 (Ford "jeep") to a shade-tree version of 2-wheel-drive it was so hard to keep a dozen scarce universal joints functional, what with all the abrasive laterite dust and mud.

USAF "Base Fuels" Oxygen plant NCOIC drove an ignorant International pickup truck, "Air Force Blue" paint the only modification evident. That baby cornbinder farm-boy 2 WD pickup would actually go anywhere a 4WD Jeep had any reasonable RIGHT to go, had around 200,000 trouble-free miles on it.

More recent wars, we seem to have learned that "America's sports car", vanilla 4WD pickups - really are a tougher and better deal than Jeeps & GI 3/4 tons.

DDoug · Jul 17, 2017

Monarchist said:
Surface was packed Laterite. Low-grade Iron-ore AKA rust-dust dry season,

Why does running a liquid oxygen plant on that surface sound like a bad thing ?

A really, really bad thing ?

Steve in SoCal · Jul 17, 2017

Bill,

I have seen some small lifts with duals more as flotation tires than capacity for soft soil.

Steve

Scottl · Jul 17, 2017

As already mentioned, there are different type "fork lifts" (properly called lift trucks) for different uses.

Basically:

Indoor, with smooth tires and usually compactly built to maneuver around narrow aisles. Can be run over concrete, properly ballasted asphalt, smoothly packed crusher run, and even carpet if the tires are taped. Almost always electric, propane only or propane/gasoline.

Outdoor, with larger treaded tires and usually (but not always) a longer chassis. Intended for tightly packed surfaces such as lumberyards, boatyards, etc. Sometimes propane or gasoline but very often diesel.

Rough terrain, meant for construction sites, etc. with even larger very aggressively treaded (loader) tires). Usually without fenders and AFAIK always diesel.

Can a lift truck lift things beyond its rating? Yes BUT. Adding additional counterweight can reduce the issue of light steering but the mast, hydraulics and chains were designed with a safety factor and using them beyond the rating reduces that margin. Add in normal wear and tear, which also reduces that margin and you may be close to failure. Know your machine, its condition and quirks and you can occasionally use it some small percentage above its rating but if you routinely need to lift heavy loads you need to trade it for a bigger unit. In any commercial use OSHA is always going to get involved with serious accidents and things can go sideways real quick if you significantly deviated from manufacturer's usage limitations.

Did they used to way under-rate forklifts? No way this is only 8K...

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