Did they used to way under-rate forklifts? No way this is only 8K... - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Why does running a liquid oxygen plant on that surface sound like a bad thing ?

    A really, really bad thing ?
    The Oxy plants, Acetylene plant, their "filled" cylinder storage were ALL on 10" to 12" or so concrete slabs.

    And yes, "bad thing" anything else could indeed be.

    In an earlier deployment - four years in Korea - the same "A2" plants had been sited over crushed gravel.

    Our Diesel gen sets - and their fuel storage - are ordinarily sited UP-grade from the Oxy plants.

    Over time, spilled Diesel and lube oil had run down under that gravel in one of the Korean War sites, become trapped in the bottom layers of it.

    A crewman was UNDER an A2 plant blowing down the distillation column as prep for serious maintenance.

    Those oils didn't "burn" in nearly pure O2. They detonated, and with fatal consequences.

    Gravel as shrapnel rendered his unfortunate remains into a bad approximation of ground beef.

    Field-mobile Oxy/Acetylene production training was a 23 week course, and a tough one. OCS is only 21 weeks.

    Corps of Engineers doesn't take "dummies" into either one as starting material, but there are plenty of MOS that have lower on-the-job risk than either even before you get sniped, machine-gunned, and rocketed just to take yer mind off over a hundred valves per plant that want managed just so.

    Now.. an Air products A2 sits in a 40-foot trailer. Had a 100 HP 3-Phase motor for its compressor. Gen set remoted.

    The older USAF A1 (we ran those as well) had an onboard GMC 6-71 and - IIRC - 60 gallon Diesel tank under it. About ten feet away from the LOX distillation column. Had to be refueled whilst running 24-by, too.

    Never kid yerself that a "Base Fuels" "Airman" (or Aircraft carrier fuel or ordnanceman) necessarily needs smaller balls than a fighter pilot or a recon Marine.

    'Coz it just ain't so.

  2. #22
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    Air tire forklifts have always been at least twice the physical size of it's solid tire counterpart.

    Air tire forklifts are great if you need to run outdoors, not so great for maneuvering in a machine shop full of machine tools. Just like almost everything else, it's a trade off as to what your primary purpose is.

    It all boils down to, the bigger the front tires and mast, the bigger physical size of the lift. Most rough terrain lifts also have a heavier mast to take the abuse of off-road.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by m16ty View Post
    Air tire forklifts have always been at least twice the physical size of it's solid tire counterpart.
    That's not really true until you get above about 6,000 lb capacity..... a 6,000 lb cushion tire lift is not much smaller than a 6,000 lb pneumatic, depending on make and tire sizes of course.

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  5. #24
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    Those forks are not intended for 14K eighter
    They look a bit flimsy compared to the mast

    Peter

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    Also worth noting that this machine may have been derated to accommodate the squeeze attachment (1500+ lbs) and the 3 stage mast. It might gain a ton if equipped with a plain carriage and single stage mast.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    Also worth noting that this machine may have been derated to accommodate the squeeze attachment (1500+ lbs) and the 3 stage mast. It might gain a ton if equipped with a plain carriage and single stage mast.
    Single stage mast ?? Don't know that I've ever seen one.... seems like it would have to be really tall to be useful but then it would be too tall.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    Single stage mast ?? Don't know that I've ever seen one.... seems like it would have to be really tall to be useful but then it would be too tall.
    I seen one, I even considered buying and, asked right here about cutting down the mast. It was a 20K Hyster that was originally from Lockheed Georgia. The mast was 24' tall fully collapsed and it would lift to 40', it did something with giant propellers. That forklift was likely from the mid1950's It was in great shape and was priced very reasonably, the killer was the height.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    Single stage mast ?? Don't know that I've ever seen one.... seems like it would have to be really tall to be useful but then it would be too tall.
    What? Then what is a boxcar special? Not everything has to go 20 feet in the air. Most forklifts could live their entire life without lifting over 10 feet.

    Post 16. Maybe there is some confusion about "stages" but my boxcar special Hyster is a double stage mast. My Daewoo 5K electric was a triple stage as is my Doosan 3k LP lift. I have seen quad stage masts but they are rare. Never seen a single stage, which would be just one beam per side. I did have a Big Joe "walkie" like that once but never seen a proper forklift that way.
    Last edited by Milacron; 07-20-2017 at 07:19 AM.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    What? Then what is a boxcar special? Not everything has to go 20 feet in the air. Most forklifts could live their entire life without lifting over 10 feet.

    Post 16.
    I don't see "post 16" as even clear as to either machine having a simplex, not telescoping mast.

    As to boxcars, tractored trailers, and containers in general, TRIPLE compound telescoping "short mast" models are common so that the fully-collapsed height clears a low overhead or a low door-entry into a higher overhead.

    And no, they don't lift as high. Nor need to do.

    Even so, to get 8, 10, or 12 feet up off a mast that is about 6 feet collapsed, triple telescoping is needed. Has to be more then an inch or two of "overlap" in the rails after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    What? Then what is a boxcar special? Not everything has to go 20 feet in the air. Most forklifts could live their entire life without lifting over 10 feet.

    Post 16.
    I have three forklifts, none of em lift over ten feet. I did borrow a lift that went to 18' to set some bridge cranes. Warehouse forklifts for pallet racking I can see having high lift, a 10K+ not so much.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in SoCal View Post
    I have three forklifts, none of em lift over ten feet. I did borrow a lift that went to 18' to set some bridge cranes. Warehouse forklifts for pallet racking I can see having high lift, a 10K+ not so much.

    Steve
    Several of the GI "rough terrain" models have 20 to 30 foot max above ground. "First Log" was about as big a cargo-moving op, and 506th Field Depot about as big a storage area as ever was. Even so, they didn't put CONEX containers anywhere near as high as a commercial seaport does. All I recall ever using the high lift for was building guard towers and setting gravity-feed water storage tanks and such.

    Civilian construction use has far, far the greater need for getting brick, cladding, wallboard, flooring, framing, and roofing materials to even medium-rise upper stories or roof.

    Not all lift trucks or TYPES of them live around machine shops. In fact MOST do not.

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    Bill,

    This conversation is regarding mast type forklifts, yes telehandlers, articulated loaders et al are forklift but not relevant to this discussion. As big and clumsy as my big yard forklift is, a Lull or articulated lift make it seem compact. That and the overhead movement of a Tele boom make them impractical for interior work with height considerations. There are lots of farms and rural properties where a wheel loader or skid steer with forks is the forklift, they work but not optimized.

    Having a small 2K, medium 8K and, 24K forklift gives me flexibility to get into tight spaces or, load and position machines. I started with my big forklift because I had to unload and position all my machines. I soon realized that a big forklift was great in the open but, a smaller lift would be needed once the big stuff was in place. The 8K lift is 60% the size of the big one. My little Clark Clipper is half that. None of my forklifts are new or highly optioned. That said, I have less invested in them all than the price of a nice 5 year old car. The construction stuff is generally more expensive and poorly suited to moving machinery. Not to mention beat to death. Dollar for dollar a mast type forklift is one of the best investments a shop can make.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in SoCal View Post
    Bill,

    This conversation is regarding mast type forklifts, yes telehandlers, articulated loaders et al are forklift but not relevant to this discussion.
    ?? Still a free country.

    You don't need my permission - or anyone else's - to ignore any part of the thread you don't like.

    Dollar for dollar a mast type forklift is one of the best investments a shop can make.
    I'd need to see the math on that one, given about once in 18 months to unload an "incoming" machine is all I need.

    Mere 7-foot X 17-foot door, 8-foot ceiling, two 10"+ beams dropped below and dividing that, so "liftgate delivery" then skates or pallet jack are far more useful all but say twice in three years.

    Now.. if you are shipping three hundred pallets a day of something, fine, I see your point, too.

    But I'd guess than many "shops" are somewhere in-between, where pallet jack and maybe a stacker can do 80% of the work most of the time, and a FL is more a nice-to-have convenience than a must-have necessity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    What? Then what is a boxcar special? Not everything has to go 20 feet in the air. Most forklifts could live their entire life without lifting over 10 feet.

    Post 16.
    Maybe there is some confusion about "stages" but my boxcar special Hyster is a double stage mast (in the photo, the turning center is not raised high enough for the second stage to show yet) My Daewoo 5K electric was a triple stage as is my Doosan 3k LP lift. I have seen quad stage masts but they are rare. Never seen a single stage, which would be just one channel per side. I did have a Big Joe "walkie" like that once but never seen a proper forklift that way.

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    ^ have only seen single stage in the walk behind pallet type stacker style. Never as a real forklift.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    ^ have only seen single stage in the walk behind pallet type stacker style. Never as a real forklift.
    I don't think anyone confuses them with a "real" forklift / lift TRUCK, but at least the powered ones can have seriously high lift, plus "reach". "Big Box" stores count on those.

    For lots of folks the simpler ones can be all that is needed to get goods between ground-level and dock or truckbed-height, or storage-rack height.

    Having the "generally" more maneuverable pallet-jack as well would still be helpful.

    Part of the issue is that a proper lift-truck has to "be somewhere" in between uses.

    With longer body and counterweight instead of straddle-rollers, that needs far more space than running a pallet-jack or stacker UNDER something such that not much "body" is left to take up scarce space.

    Rural folk who HAVE space would probably be better-served with a decent front-end loader that could switch between 4-in-one bucket and forks. It can do other useful work in between times that a "mast type" forklift cannot even dream about.

    "Horses for courses", etc..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Rural folk who HAVE space would probably be better-served with a decent front-end loader that could switch between 4-in-one bucket and forks. It can do other useful work in between times that a "mast type" forklift cannot even dream about.
    If moving machines you don't mind falling off the forks maybe....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    If moving machines you don't mind falling off the forks maybe....
    Compromises we learn to work with and around, boss.

    Especially on the 4000 & 6000 Anthony R/T's when you could point the forks straight down, drive them four-plus feet into the rice-paddy, use the extensible boom to incrementally push the rig out once it was bogged frame-deep in the mud. Got that very tee shirt.

    Mind - they DID have body/frame TILT, and I'm not aware of "common" front-end loaders so equipped...

    Nowadays, chains, slings, clamps, and straps I have aplenty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Rural folk who HAVE space would probably be better-served with a decent front-end loader that could switch between 4-in-one bucket and forks. It can do other useful work in between times that a "mast type" forklift cannot even dream about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    If moving machines you don't mind falling off the forks maybe....
    I know several people who have either tractors or loaders who also use forks on occasion. While they are certainly more difficult to use because you must constantly adjust tilt to compensate for changes in elevation, people have moved machinery and other precious objects with them. It just requires more caution and a skilled operator.

    FWIW, a non Lull type telehandler also requires such manipulation to keep loads level. Dropping an AC unit while hoisting it onto a roof would not be a good thing and telehandler operators routinely lift loads 2 and even 3 stories high. An Ingersol Rand unit I once got to play with briefly had a 56 foot reach on the boom. Add in the rough terrain on most construction sites and the level of skill required becomes even more obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Add in the rough terrain on most construction sites and the level of skill required becomes even more obvious.
    Motor Pool Sergeant I had to draw rolling-stock from was a notorious ball-buster on "qualifications". Most especially on "TO'ing anything he was Mother Hen over.

    Royal PITA then. Grateful as all Hell for the value of it, since. Ditto the Sergeants as had taught me in the first place.

    Ain't yet once damaged the equipment, the load, the building, or my own arse, and the rental companies love that just as much as I do.


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