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OT: can your state dot bust you for overweight in a non company owned vehicle?

WILLEO6709

Diamond
Joined
Nov 6, 2001
Location
WAPELLO, IA USA
I just got busted today making a scrap run in a 3500 dually dodge and a gooseneck. Gross weight 29,300 loaded, about 20k empty on the return trip. I never considered a pickup a commercial vehicle....I was under all the max axle ratings, but I suppose I should count my blessings, I got to finish the trip. Officer first had his eye on an out of service/ no class a cdl ticket, which I don't know what it would have cost. the overweight fine was bad enough.
I did not even know you could license a pickup by weight.....

This truck was in company name, trailer in company name. If they are individually owned does that matter in your state?
 
Here we buy our truck and trailer plates by weight. You can be ticketed for being over the tag OR GVW, or both if applicable... Private or commercial.
 
In Ohio any truck over 1/2 ton is automatically licensed "commercial". I had a privately owned "box truck", the type built on a cutaway van chassis, and it was licensed commercially and with a weight decal for something like 12,000 lbs. I didn't go thru scales, even when going from state to state. However, I was told that I could be directed to a scale by any police officer and fined if I was overweight.

Our 1/2 ton truck owners have to declare whether it is commercial or not, and if not, sign a document that the vehicle will not be used in any commercial activity. The folks that do this, and then put those magnetic signs on their truck advertising their painting, remodeling, plumbing, etc. are opening themselves up for some big fines.

Your laws may vary

Jim Caudill
 
A pickup truck loaded with scrap metal is a cop magnet. They love big overweight fines because it helps them reach their quota faster. One overweight ticket might be as much as three or four speeding tickets.

Overweight tickets always are the responsibility of the driver. Some states make being overweight a criminal offense.
 
Yes. But, many federal laws override the state regs. FMCSA controls most things.

The registered weight of the vehicles are always added. So, you can register the pickup for 10,000 and the trailer for 20,000 and legally gross 30,000. Or, in the case of a semi, you can register the tractor for 80,000 and the trailer registration is just some nominal fee.

The CDL thing is kinda sketchy. Technically, you need a CDL for any vehicle over 26,000, or any combination pulling a trailer over 10,000. That's a federal rule. But, it's very rarely enforced for pickups if they are not "for hire". Meaning they are not making money. You were selling scrap in a company owned truck, so that's "for hire" in my book.

Then you get into other fun things. Most pickups have a rated towing amount. You can't go over that. For my truck it's 14,600. I've towed way more than that, but technically not allowed. Tire ratings are the other big one. Lots of trailers have 8,000 lbs axles, but the tires are rated for 3000 lbs. You can't go over the tire rating.

Get your CDL. It's not hard to do. I got mine the day I turned 18.

Be lucky you got to finish your run. Here in IL, overweight tickets start at $500 and go up based on weight.
 
In Mass even if you have a 1-ton, say a Ford E350 and it is registered for 1/2 ton they will issue a ticket for over 1/2 ton. Don't ask me how I know. (Also got written up for no wheel chocks, no fire extinguisher and no flares) Boss man was none to happy with that one.

JR
 
In Wisconsin it doesn't matter where or to whom the truck is registered or licensed. As others have mentioned if you're over the limit it's licensed for (even if it's under the GCWR) you get a ticket. If it's grossly over weight you may have to get another truck to come pick up the amount of the overage before you can move.
 
Do what you can to avoid a CDL, your under a whole new level of jeopardy with one, from dot health inspections and cards, to fines doubling depending on the state, to .04% blood alcohol limit, 1/2 of the normal limit. And that applies whether or not you'r driving commercial. Of course you shouldn't drink and drive but .04% is very little for people of smaller stature. Use a smaller truck and trailer, unmarked and stay under the CGVW.
 
It annoys me that "commercial vehicle enforcement" is a separate branch targeting those in the transportation industry. The whole "for hire" thing is quicksand too. I don't contract to haul other people's scrap..... to me that would be for hire. Hauling my own scrap - As I interpret it its the same as a farmer taking HIS product to market. Farmers used to be able to transport their stuff to market using a semi without a class a cdl.
even the cdl - I would not object to a cdl if it did not bring all the same rules as those who are in the truck full time. Its a lot of work to maintain all the red tape bs for dot numbers, cdl drivers "for hire" regs including random drug testing( how random can it be with only 1-2 drivers ), and the reporting..... sounds easier to get a 3/4 ton truck under 10k gvwr and roll with it.
 
Federal rules say any trailer over 10,000 lbs, requires a CDL. Most states are the same, and some give an exception for recreational use (only while within your state). Back in 2008, when I got out of driving big trucks, the DOT was shifting their focus from big trucks, to single trucks, and smaller combinations.

You have two issues, the trailer over 10,000 lbs. It was definitely not being used for recreational use, so most states, and by Federal rules, a CDL was required. There is a mileage limit, that if you do not drive out side it, you do not need a logbook.

The other issue, is the truck considered commercial? Truck and trailer both registered in companies name. How do you began to claim it is not commercial use? What do you do at the weigh stations, that say "All commercial vehicles must exit", or "All trucks must exit"? Maryland was cracking down on personal race cars. Their reasoning was that even though you do not have it as a business, you are racing to win, Which normally involves winning money, so therefore it is a commercial enterprise, and therefore a commercial vehicle.
 
I would not object to a cdl if it did not bring all the same rules as those who are in the truck full time. Its a lot of work to maintain all the red tape bs for dot numbers, cdl drivers "for hire" regs including random drug testing( how random can it be with only 1-2 drivers ), and the reporting..... sounds easier to get a 3/4 ton truck under 10k gvwr and roll with it.

Put the shoe on the other foot. How aggravating is it for the guys who run dump trucks and other CDL trucks that pay up and play by the rules to be competing head to head with these guys who don't pay for the right plates, safety gear, licenses, etc because "it's just a pickup".

20 years ago, it was pretty rare to see a pickup with dual rear wheels. You rarely saw a gooseneck trailer. If guys wanted to pull 30,000 lbs, they got a real truck and played by the big truck rules. Now, everyone has a diesel truck and a PJ trailer and thinks they can play big rig trucker on the cheap.

Commercial trucking is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the US. It's not quite as bad as aviation, but it's still a bitch. Technically, any vehicle over 10,000 lbs being used for hire (hauling goods for hire) needs DOT numbers, MC authority, cargo insurance, IFTA, apportioned plates (if crossing state lines), possibly heavy vehicle tax, log books if going more than 100 miles, and a CDL. Plus you need to follow federal hours of service and have the fire extinguisher and 3 triangle.

This is the sham of sites like Uship. A guy with a pickup and a trailer thinks he can "get some loads" and make some money. He's most likely breaking the law without the above requirements being met.

Personally, I hope the rules get enforced more heavily. It should be a level playing field. A guy in a pickup shouldn't get a pass.


Also, the BAC for a CDL holder is only .04 while driving a commercial vehicle. It's a myth that it applies all the time. And, if you don't leave the state, you usually don't need a DOT medical.
 
This is all interesting but its still not answering what I originally asked, does it matter whose name the truck is registered under in your state?
 
No, it doesn't matter. Even farmers can't be over the registered weight. Hell, I got busted once driving a township owned dump truck hauling asphalt. Government fining the government.
 
In Ohio any truck over 1/2 ton is automatically licensed "commercial".

Nope, my 2500 is registered "NONCOM TRU". You can also register a one ton truck non-commercial but the fee nearly doubles. Ohio commercial tags are based on GVW. If the deputy registrar is telling you that you must be commercial then you need to call Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles to report them and go to different deputy registrar.
 
I've heard that they are cracking down a lot in Michigan too. A guy that I know that has a single axle dump truck that he uses for landscaping got DOT #'s on his truck so he wouldn't get busted.

This spring I was hauling an old garden tractor from my buddies barn back to my house. I had it loaded on my 16' flatbed car hauler. I had it tied on with a 1" strap but didn't figure it was for much more than looks. The tractor is a hydrostat and usually it won't move unless you disengage the transmission. Well, I pulled away from a stop sign and looked out my rear view mirror to see the old tractor heading for the rear of the trailer. By the time I could hit the brakes the tractor was hanging on the beavertail by the blades.

I pulled off to the side of the road and within 30 seconds there was a state trooper behind me that had the sticker on his door that identified him as the DOT guy. He said "lets see if we can push it back on to the trailer. Then he stopped and said "are you hauling this commercially"? I told him that it is my personal mower, which it was, and the rest of the exchange was almost like it says on the door "to protect and serve". That might be the sheriff but same applies.

I used a 2" nylon strap to winch it back onto the trailer and kept it tied with the same strap. I found out that the 1" straps that I was using to tie the tractor on with broke down in the sun.

I also didn't have a plate on the trailer and was never questioned about it. I have the trailer all legal but the plate bracket was almost broken off so I broke it off the rest of the way and hadn't put it back on yet.
 
Commercial vs private makes all the difference. The government has almost unlimited power to regulate business. It's no different than sex. Two (or more?) consenting adults are free to fornicate in just about any way they like. But, as soon as money changes hands, we have a problem.
 
In Ohio, my 2500 Suburban is registered as a standard passenger car. No truck, weight, or use limitations. I guess the permanent truck cap makes it not a truck, which is fine by me.

I did have to sign a non-commercial affidavit for my Ford Ranger, and was asked the "commercial?" question on my tilt trailer and enclosed car hauler.

Chip
 
I applied for and got a DOT number several years ago.
Within 1 year I got the 'educational/inspection' visit from the DOT 'nice guy' -slash- inspector guy.
He talked to me for 2 hours, went thru the huge DOT rule/reg book (within 10 minutes my eyes glazed over) and looked casually at my box truck, told me my 1.5" DOT numbers should be 2 or 2-1/2 inch, and the small ones are a ticket waiting to happen.

He said a few things that made me wish I never bought the truck.

1. If the tag in the cab shows a GVW of 10,000lbs or more
"YOU ARE IN THE GAME"

(in his words)
2. Unfortunately, (I hate to admit it but) we do have (some) road side officers we call MSU's.......Make Shit Up.
And if they can't find something wrong to write you up, they can and do make shit up to ticket you on.

Great....

So, I'm like......how do I avoid all this BS and extra fees, insurance, med card, log book, etc.??
He says 'go back to a pickup rated under 9995lbs and don't go over 10,000.

Great again!
I NEED a truck just a few times a year, and the box truck is superior to any pickup for hauling capacity and economy.
And I just plain like it a whole lot more than a shitty wimpy pickup. But I 'can't have it' because it makes it not worth the extra cost. So I can't really justify having it around and on the road just have it for occasional use.
Damn government!
There should be more lax rules for sole proprietor and small businesses with fewer than 5 employees!
But I get it.....cash cow for the states, and feds.
Make it 'safer' for the motoring public, and harder for the little guy.

And the other aggravating thing is, I see guys all over with pickup trucks (some only 1/2 ton) with NO DOT numbers on them pulling 5000GVW trailers with 8000 and 10,000+ pound Mini Excavators and Skid Steers on them!
Apparently they NEVER GET CAUGHT because they wouldn't be doing it afterward.
:mad5:
 
FWIW, I now use a Chevy Express box truck that was designed to be as light as possible and therefore avoid the whole DOT number and weight station thing. The box is all composite and aluminum....the lift gate (which is also the rear door) is mostly aluminum, the hydraulic support legs are mostly aluminum.

So, amazingly the GVW is only 10,000 lbs.... i.e. 1 pound under the point at which the regulations kick in. (in contrast, a standard diesel dually pickup truck is typically 11,000+ GVW)

SynergyLiteTruckclean1_000.jpg


When I bought it I was concerned about the composite floor cracking or buckling under concentrated loads of 2500 lbs on a 1000 lb weight electric pallet jack... but it's been fine...no problem at all. Even has E track on inside walls for securing with straps and/or special E track shoring beams (also all aluminum)

The hydraulic support legs are so cool....push a button and you can raise the rear to dock height, and they keep it solid as a rock when loading. Press another button to retract the legs back to travel position.
 
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