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OT- Jungheinrich ECR 327 electric pallet jack - Warranty not being honored- BBB ?

Milacron

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 15, 2000
Location
SC, USA
Bought new Aug 2013, one year full warranty, two years on traction (the problem is with the traction), dealer can't fix it, now they are in "ignore" mode. Dollar amount for the jack not cost effective for getting lawyered up. Would a call to their local BBB do any good ?

Current hours on the pallet jack are 3.5 (not a misprint)
 
Post here these words:

" Jungheinrich ECR 327 electric pallet jack "

"Bad design"

"Fatal accident"

I swear googling pops up this site first, every time.

Seriously:
Less extreme, a e-mail to company, with linky to your post's here on trying to diagnose problem.
AFAIC, you did due dillegance in trying to fix, and resolve problem, and your getting the run around.
Not threatening in any way, just let them read of your trials & tribulations, they'll easily see
it's been posted in a very public forum.
 
Post here these words:

" Jungheinrich ECR 327 electric pallet jack "

"Bad design"

"Fatal accident"

I swear googling pops up this site first, every time.
Well, lets make this thread very active and see ;) The Jungheinrich ECR 327 title may not pop up first with PM's SEO as there are so many other listings for the same model already online. But it might, eventually. (near top of Google page two at the moment)
 
1]bypass dealer, speak direct to the company

2]what is the small claims max in your jurisdiction?

That's what I was wondering... small claims court. Around here it's $500 max, but at least they would have to acknowledge your suit...that would at least put you on their radar.

Or, $500 for defective machine, then a separate $500 for damage caused by failure of machine to hold steady while stopped on incline and rolling into side of other machine and breaking something, $500 for damage to machine that toppled over when fork truck jumped from inching to high speed..... the list could go on with a creative mind. Give the courts' process server an armload of court papers to deliver to their office.
 
So does my posting "Jungheinrich ECR 327' help get the topic higher up on Google? I like the idea of small claims court. How about your OHSA inspector can they force the company to recall all of the Jungheinrich ECR 327 as unsafe at any speed? That could cost them some market share.

Bill D.
 
1]bypass dealer, speak direct to the company
Tried that three times over the course of a couple of weeks. Jungheinrich in Houston, TX has set themselves up behind an iron wall and a rather large moat. No end users can speak with anyone at the factory* about anything. No matter how much one pleads otherwise, the operator at the factory will always route calls to entity known as Lift Central, which is apparently command central for the dealers. So it turns out as an endless loop always going back to the same dealer.

I practically begged the factory operator to put me thru to a factory engineer just to get their take on what the problem might be...no can do.

Emailed Jungheinrich world corporate headquarters in Germany for the first time yesterday but due to general email address doubt I'll ever hear back from them.

===============

*Officially known as MCF corp. in Houston, TX (Mitsubishi Caterpillar Forklift)
 
Seems Jungheinrich has a few different Facebook pages (different regions), perhaps voicing your frustration there will yield some results. They probably check it daily and bad PR is always addressed quickly.
 
Lay out your problems and repair attempts in a detailed (receipts, times, dates, who you talked to etc) letter. Mail it (certified) to the Manf company and dealer. Neither want problems and at least they know you won't "go away". If you have a lawyer, spend a few $ and get it sent on his letterhead.

Small claims court is $5000 max here (not sure about the restrictions on type of claim), but you cannot be represented by a lawyer. Hey, try to get on "Judge Judy" ;)
 
How about your OHSA inspector can they force the company to recall all of the Jungheinrich ECR 327 as unsafe at any speed? That could cost them some market share.
I do wonder if the reason there is so much push back on this issue is the fact that perhaps all of the ECR 327's are like this. If that were the case one would think more complaints would be showing up on Google searches, but I could see the possibility that most users of these jacks don't care that much if the acceleration is choppy...crashing into pallets of produce or whatever and running at breakneck speed might not matter that much to them. Just a theory anyway.

I've been trying to find another dealer in SC or GA that has one in stock so I can go and try it out, but no one has one .. all ordered only via customers PO.

I just spoke with someone at dealers local BBB and was impressed. The dealer has no complaints on file but they definitely would after I file one and they don't fix the problem. Whether they care or not is the question.
 
Their web site says the unit has "exceptional acceleration". maybe that is code for uncontrolable jack rabbit starts. Tesla motors may want to add that controller to their electric sports cars which take 3.7 seconds to reach 60 MPH. Are you burning rubber on your standing starts?
Bill D.

Jungheinrich ECR 327 pallet jack has problems, don't buy one.
 
(near top of Google page two at the moment)
It is strange how Google works sometimes as you know darn well there are way more eyeballs seeing this thread right now than there are viewing the other links to that model of jack. I suspect a Youtube video might do the trick...or just properly renaming the two I have on there showing the defect in action already.
 
GM's answer that they could not figure out a cheap way to fix a switch has not been accepted by the NHSTB. The lawyers are circling and I feel sorry for those killed by their denials. So maybe Jungheinrich ECR 327 pallet jack has unfixable problems.
Bill D.
 
Their web site says the unit has "exceptional acceleration". maybe that is code for uncontrolable jack rabbit starts. Tesla motors may want to add that controller to their electric sports cars which take 3.7 seconds to reach 60 MPH. Are you burning rubber on your standing starts?
Bill D.

Jungheinrich ECR 327 pallet jack has problems, don't buy one.
Rather than retype everything, below is what I posted on a material handling forum about that issue. As the site I posted the below on blocks URLs, add www. to the URL's to see the brochures.
=============================================

I was curious as the techs were trying to convince me that the small steps in acceleration was just they way they are now. In contrast, the Jungheinrich literature describes the situation very differently-
Note the mention of "stepless speed control in below ECR 327 literature" with print date of 2010.


(add www to this) kellytractor.com/eng/images/pdf/forklifts/jungheinrich/walkies/ECR-327-336.pdf


And another brochure from 2010..


madisa.com/sites/default/files/producto/ficha/ficha_jh_carretillaselectricas_ECR327_en_0.pdf


"Controlled by design
Control is the key concept behind the
ECR 327/336. The synchronization of
the Jungheinrich 3-phase AC motor
and controller allows for the smooth,
precise movement of the truck at the
speed you designate"


Smooth, precise movement ?? Mine is the opposite of that !


This situation is most curious. Even if they can't figure out how to fix this particular jack one would think they would get me another or offer a refund, but I continue to be ignored.


I wonder if it's possible all the ECR327's are this way, but all the others perhaps were sold to users that either aren't familiar with how an electric pallet jack is supposed to run and/or to users loading produce or other palletized goods where a bit of crashing into the pallets is no big deal and they are running at such breakneck speed they simply don't care how smooth the acce
 
Just a dumb question, does the unit allow you to enter your own velocity acceleration profiles?

Also, does it handle any different when it's loaded?

Ray
 
I do wonder if the reason there is so much push back on this issue is the fact that perhaps all of the ECR 327's are like this. If that were the case one would think more complaints would be showing up on Google searches, but I could see the possibility that most users of these jacks don't care that much if the acceleration is choppy...crashing into pallets of produce or whatever and running at breakneck speed might not matter that much to them.

If the company is managed using the "meet your profit objective, no excuses", then ignoring the problem may be the Veeps only way to get his/her bonus.

Your approach to post this on other forums, as many as possible, that folks might check before making the mistake of buying a Jungheinrich will at least give you psychic comfort.

I do think you should elevate this with a letter, using the words "sudden unintended acceleration", emphasizing that such a design or manufacturing flaw could result in death, serious injury, or significant property loss. At the very least, emphasize that the flaw makes the unit useless for it's intended purpose. Send it to the distributor, the US HQ, and to the German HQ (nice if you can get it translated into good old Deutsch.) Emphasize that the company appears to be ignoring their warranty. You may wish to emphasize the publicity that this is getting on the many forums you are posting the story on, and that the exposure that design defects, poor (nonexistent) customer service, and failure to honor the warrantee may be having on sales. I'd mention the Chevy Cobalt design defect.

I would CC Legal affairs in the US office. May be worth writing the letter up, and seeing if your lawyer will put it on his letterhead for a small fee. Sorry to say that this gets folks off top dead center sometimes.

But this does sound like "wanton indifference" to a dangerous design or manufacturing defect that causes sudden, unintended acceleration of a a device that may weigh over 6000 lbs. Its nuts, and bad business, for them to ignore it.
 
Just a dumb question, does the unit allow you to enter your own velocity acceleration profiles?

Also, does it handle any different when it's loaded?

Ray
No and no. The only difference when loaded is the side casters don't rattle so much. I have to be super careful when loaded as you can imagine...esp if it is a top heavy load that might tip if I were to go beyond slow speed into the sudden acceleration mode. (in 1/64" of throttle turn it goes from 30 feet per minute to 150 feet per minute....an instantaneous 5 times speed increase) The is why after 8 months it only has 3 hours on it... I tend to use alternatives.

There was an optional keypad with user change parameters a possibility but this one doesn't have the keypad. Ironically my older Junheinrich electric pallet jack does have that keypad but it accelerates smooth as silk so there is no need to use the keypad other than to enter the code to turn the unit on.
 
My take on this is electronic comunication at this point is easy to ignore - your going to have to go old school.

Write an actual letter - document the issues include everything, with the dates you contacted them and the responses (or lack thereof).

Address it to the North American CEO president etc (whatever is the highest layer you can find). CC your attorney general office (breach of warranty) OSHA (saftey), and anyone else you may think would be interested.

Send it registered mail. And send the CC copies.

Bet you hear back within the week.
I have had success using this method in the past (different issue and one of the CC's was the SEC I got a phone call before I thought they would even have gotten the mail - this after getting put off for months)

If they ignore all that they have serious problems - a lawyer may be needed, maybe you can find one that will do it on a contingency basis... (much as I hate the idea this looks like a case where they are asking to get wacked).

Good luck
Paul

looks like bosley types faster than I do - letters can work wonders CC the appropriate outside resources gets attention...
 
Maybe there will be a safety recall of the Jungheinrich ECR 327 electric pallet jack. Any accidents should be reported to the U. S. Consumer Products Commission. Once the reports are serious in number or severity (fatal or personal injury accidents), there will be action.

At the least, the product should be plastered with large safety warning signs and should come with a thick book of safety instructions. Perhaps a condition of sale would be several hours of dealer-supplied safety training for all personnel licensed to operate the machine in an environment where people could be injured or property damaged by a malfunctioning machine or untrained operator.

Our local supermarket often has employees using pallet jacks in the retail part of the store while lots of customers are in the area. An out-of-control pallet jack could cause havoc. I wonder how much training those people get.

Larry
 
In answer to the original question, BBB? Probably won't do any good, but might as well do it anyway. My understanding is it's only effective if other customers check with BBB prior to purchase from that company. And, how many times have you checked out a company through BBB?
Yeah I thought of that...who contacts the BBB before purchasing a material handling item from a long time dealer ? Still, making the record of the complaint known to their competitors might be interesting. Would make a good sales pitch for the competitor to be able to say..."oh and btw, you might want to check out GP's BBB record before you make a decision who to buy from". Anyone on the fence about which dealer to buy from would probably go with the one with the clean BBB record.
 








 
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