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OT- Shop trucks- 2017 ram cummins

WILLEO6709

Diamond
Joined
Nov 6, 2001
Location
WAPELLO, IA USA
I am looking at maybe a new shop truck this year... we have a couple 1 ton drw pickups and a medium duty Peterbilt box truck. I think I want a 3/4 ton below 10,001 gvrw and the local place has a new ram cummins 4x 4 that looks nice.
I have heard stories about the complexity def fluid added to the diesel engines... the newest I have is a 2008 6.7 ram cummins- it was supposed to have the diesel particulate filter but it had some issues in the first few months and I never recall it regenerating for YEARS....neither does anyone else who has driven it. It is a BEAST though, how much of that is the 6 speed auto in front of 4.10 limited slip with the torque of the 6.7 and how much is just the engine I don't know. I know its noticeably more beast mode than the 2000 f350 7.3l 4r100 with 4.10 limited slip. Not so noticeable in light loads but hook 20k behind them and its night and day.
We pull trailers around quite a bit in summer- we have a dump trailer we use for scrap and a flatbed trailer with a steel deck we haul the big mower around on.....Dad has an acreage and a remote acreage so its gets a trip or 2 a week towing. I have no idea what the mower trailer weighs but its heavy....
Does anyone have a newer ram cummins that uses the def fluid that can compare it to pre def? The possibility of expensive repairs to the catalyst system has me thinking maybe a gas truck is an option but I hate to give up the 150% torque rating of the cummins to gas.
 
I had a '98 Dodge Cummins that I loved and we also have a '06 Duramax that's been a good one.

When I went to replace the Dodge, I looked at the current model diesels and wasn't impressed. Just too complicated and a bunch of money over a gas. I settled with a 2015 Chevy 2500 with 6.0 gas. I'm happy with it and really impressed with the power it has. It's not diesel power but it's more than adequate ( I've grown out of having the baddest truck around and trying to race pulling heavy loads). Only thing that could be better is mileage, I average 15mpg. It would still take a long time though to loose enough in mileage to pay for the extra cost of diesel, def, exta purchase price, and extra maintenance.
 
I am looking at maybe a new shop truck this year... we have a couple 1 ton drw pickups and a medium duty Peterbilt box truck. I think I want a 3/4 ton below 10,001 gvrw and the local place has a new ram cummins 4x 4 that looks nice.
I have heard stories about the complexity def fluid added to the diesel engines... the newest I have is a 2008 6.7 ram cummins- it was supposed to have the diesel particulate filter but it had some issues in the first few months and I never recall it regenerating for YEARS....neither does anyone else who has driven it. It is a BEAST though, how much of that is the 6 speed auto in front of 4.10 limited slip with the torque of the 6.7 and how much is just the engine I don't know. I know its noticeably more beast mode than the 2000 f350 7.3l 4r100 with 4.10 limited slip. Not so noticeable in light loads but hook 20k behind them and its night and day.
We pull trailers around quite a bit in summer- we have a dump trailer we use for scrap and a flatbed trailer with a steel deck we haul the big mower around on.....Dad has an acreage and a remote acreage so its gets a trip or 2 a week towing. I have no idea what the mower trailer weighs but its heavy....
Does anyone have a newer ram cummins that uses the def fluid that can compare it to pre def? The possibility of expensive repairs to the catalyst system has me thinking maybe a gas truck is an option but I hate to give up the 150% torque rating of the cummins to gas.

I have a 2013 Ram 2500 With the 6.7L with a 6 speed. I absolutely love it. Regarding the DEF issues, that was more of a 2011-2012 issue where people were deleting them left and right. I have 54K miles on mine and only had one CEL related to the DEF system. It was right when I purchased it and it was something along the lines of cyrstalized debie found on the solenoid which makes sense that the truck sat on a truck lot for 6 months. DEF is made from cow urine as a main ingredient and I have observed it crystalizing in the empty container.

As far as fuel mileage, I get around 15 around town and will creep up to 18 or so on the highway.

Towing is phenomenal. I towed a lathe from CT to OH with it. 19,200lbs loaded and it didn't even sweat up the inclines in CT,NY and Pa. Factory braking control system is nice as well. My loaded mileage was 13.5mpg. Tow excavators with it locally and properly loaded, I have broke the tires loose on accident.

I have Three other friends that have these trucks/engines and have not had issues either. I'm a member of the cummin forum and concensus is that they are pretty solid engine/emmissions systems despite them being smog protected by the EPA. We all want the crap removed though. I'm sure some scientist can explain it, but how is it better for the environment if the engine gets 20% less fuel mileage with the smog equipment on?

My truck has never regened either. But I think it is because I have a manual and I tend to shift at 2K Rpms as opposed to the lower shift points on the auto trans. IMO- I'd never buy one of these with auto. The enging brake isn't as effective and I just don't like the associated costs of an auto tranny in any vehicle. If you go with the Aisin really look into it, although they give you highest torque ratings from the factory with that tranny, Ram adjusted the torque curves because you can break the tires loose with easy with all the torque these engines generate. I prefer my torque regulator being my foot on the fuel pedal not an onboard computer.


FWIW, if you are looking for a truck I know you mentioned local, but check out Kernersville Dodge in NC. They have the best prices East of the Mississipi followed by Dave Sweet up in Idaho. Kernersville is decent to deal with, but be very picky about the truck condition if they deliver it. I had zero issues, but my buddy got a truck and it had a couple of dents. He had the delivery truck document the damange upon delivery and then had to get on them hard but they finally fixed it. So point is if it is worth it to deal with them, I'd fly in to their dealer and inspect the vehicle there unless you are easy going if things happen.

Don't worry about warranty stuff... the dealers get paid and they have to accept all ram products regardless of where they are purchased.
 
I have a 2013 Ram 2500 With the 6.7L with a 6 speed. I absolutely love it. Regarding the DEF issues, that was more of a 2011-2012 issue where people were deleting them left and right. I have 54K miles on mine and only had one CEL related to the DEF system. It was right when I purchased it and it was something along the lines of cyrstalized debie found on the solenoid which makes sense that the truck sat on a truck lot for 6 months. DEF is made from cow urine as a main ingredient and I have observed it crystalizing in the empty container.

As far as fuel mileage, I get around 15 around town and will creep up to 18 or so on the highway.

Towing is phenomenal. I towed a lathe from CT to OH with it. 19,200lbs loaded and it didn't even sweat up the inclines in CT,NY and Pa. Factory braking control system is nice as well. My loaded mileage was 13.5mpg. Tow excavators with it locally and properly loaded, I have broke the tires loose on accident.

I have Three other friends that have these trucks/engines and have not had issues either. I'm a member of the cummin forum and concensus is that they are pretty solid engine/emmissions systems despite them being smog protected by the EPA. We all want the crap removed though. I'm sure some scientist can explain it, but how is it better for the environment if the engine gets 20% less fuel mileage with the smog equipment on?

My truck has never regened either. But I think it is because I have a manual and I tend to shift at 2K Rpms as opposed to the lower shift points on the auto trans. IMO- I'd never buy one of these with auto. The enging brake isn't as effective and I just don't like the associated costs of an auto tranny in any vehicle. If you go with the Aisin really look into it, although they give you highest torque ratings from the factory with that tranny, Ram adjusted the torque curves because you can break the tires loose with easy with all the torque these engines generate. I prefer my torque regulator being my foot on the fuel pedal not an onboard computer.


FWIW, if you are looking for a truck I know you mentioned local, but check out Kernersville Dodge in NC. They have the best prices East of the Mississipi followed by Dave Sweet up in Idaho. Kernersville is decent to deal with, but be very picky about the truck condition if they deliver it. I had zero issues, but my buddy got a truck and it had a couple of dents. He had the delivery truck document the damange upon delivery and then had to get on them hard but they finally fixed it. So point is if it is worth it to deal with them, I'd fly in to their dealer and inspect the vehicle there unless you are easy going if things happen.

Don't worry about warranty stuff... the dealers get paid and they have to accept all ram products regardless of where they are purchased.

To bad you can't do a pick up truck version of a glider kit like they do with semis. Buy a brand new truck less engine and trans then have them put a fresh rebuilt pre emission engine and trans. in it.
 
To bad you can't do a pick up truck version of a glider kit like they do with semis. Buy a brand new truck less engine and trans then have them put a fresh rebuilt pre emission engine and trans. in it.

I've bemoaned that for a while. Getting tired of driving Dads old tired 2nd gen dodge, but that 5.9 is to die for. It's got 400k and the engine runs like new, it's just the dodge body is slowly rotting off......

If I could buy ANYTHING new with a 5.9 cummins, I'd even take a 24 valve 5.9, I'd buy it right now. Wouldn't be as fast as the new engines, but I get 20-22mpg with my 22 year old 5.9 and it just keeps going and going and going.....

I have no good info here, but rented a brand new Ford 450, Chevy 3500 and Dodge 3500 to move some machine tools. Each load was towing 15,000lbs at the lightest. The heaviest load was over 30,000lbs (way over loaded) on a 40' gooseneck behind the Dodge 3500 with the Cummins.

The Dodge with the Cummins was by FAR the best truck. Pulled the hardest, got the best mileage, nicest to drive and nicest interior (most simple and utilitarian).

Dad was ready to buy it until he saw the price tag and looked under the hood.

And as far as longevity, I see a lot less sick Cummins engines than fords. You can still find the horror stores about them, but I think I'd pick a tier 4 Cummins over the competitors.

This info is worth what your paying for it.
 
To bad you can't do a pick up truck version of a glider kit like they do with semis. Buy a brand new truck less engine and trans then have them put a fresh rebuilt pre emission engine and trans. in it.
That would be great, I have a 90 model with 200k on it. I would pull out the motor and adjust the valves put a new rear main seal in it and StuffIt in a brand new truck.
 
ALL of the brands have made stupid power the last five years. If you like the Ram then go for it.

Just imagine what they could do if you took all the emissions crap off!
 
I can't see why anyone but a guy who tows 75% of the time or more would ever buy a new diesel.

Diesel trucks used to be simple, get good mileage, and have reasonable amounts of power. Plus diesel used to be cheaper. Now diesel engines are luxury items for yuppies and rich farmers.

Gas engines have caught up to, and likely surpassed, the diesel engines of just 10 years ago.

Give them 5 more years to figure out all the emissions BS. Diesel engines today are where gas engines were in the late 1970s. It used to be the wild west, then the government cracked down. The auto makers patched on smog pumps and EGR valves and engines pretty much sucked for about 15 years. Then, in the late 80s and early 90s, they kind of figured it out. Today, you can get a gas engine that makes 400+ horses and gets over 20 MPG and will run 200,000 miles without even changing spark plugs.

The same thing will happen with diesels. Someone will figure out a recipe that meets emissions without all the BS we have now. But, it's not here yet. I'll wait.
 
I have a 2010 dually but i wouldn't be buying a new truck because the cat piss and a few other things i don't like. Also i work as mechanic and are fleet has 450 Cummins isl isx and few isb most of are problems are emission related dpfs and egr coolers nox filters here and there motor problems but in general Cummins work very well. Some of are dpfs and Nox filters cost $10,000 in Canada the smaller trucks i think are around $5000 if you buy a new truck i would be dealing it in just before the warranty is up because they are $$$ to fix if your paying out of your pocket. Wes has some points gas trucks are likely a better deal than a new diesel.
 
I can't see why anyone but a guy who tows 75% of the time or more would ever buy a new diesel.

Diesel trucks used to be simple, get good mileage, and have reasonable amounts of power. Plus diesel used to be cheaper. Now diesel engines are luxury items for yuppies and rich farmers.

Gas engines have caught up to, and likely surpassed, the diesel engines of just 10 years ago.

Give them 5 more years to figure out all the emissions BS. Diesel engines today are where gas engines were in the late 1970s. It used to be the wild west, then the government cracked down. The auto makers patched on smog pumps and EGR valves and engines pretty much sucked for about 15 years. Then, in the late 80s and early 90s, they kind of figured it out. Today, you can get a gas engine that makes 400+ horses and gets over 20 MPG and will run 200,000 miles without even changing spark plugs.

The same thing will happen with diesels. Someone will figure out a recipe that meets emissions without all the BS we have now. But, it's not here yet. I'll wait.

That's my thoughts exactly, and why I went with a gas on my last purchase. Unless you do a awful lot of heavy towing, you'll never come out money ahead going with a new diesel.

Modern gas burners will pull the GVW of the truck fine. Sure, that big Dodge may run off and leave you but I'm not in a race. I just don't do enough heavy hauling to justify the extra cost of a diesel.

This is all coming from a guy that used to be nicknamed "Mr Diesel" and have been a huge fan of diesel trucks from the beginning. I just don't recognize these new engines they call "diesels".
 
Lot's of fleets, like the power company here, are going back to gas trucks. My UPS guy has a gas truck.

The diesel engine builders have priced themselves out of business. A set of OEM injectors for a Powerstroke cost as much as a new short block for a gas engine.

The other issue here in the Mid West is the rust. What's the point of an engine that can go 400,000 miles if the truck fall apart at 250,000? Makes sense for a fleet that puts on 75,000 miles a year, but not for the average guy.
 
I can't see why anyone but a guy who tows 75% of the time or more would ever buy a new diesel.

Diesel trucks used to be simple, get good mileage, and have reasonable amounts of power. Plus diesel used to be cheaper. Now diesel engines are luxury items for yuppies and rich farmers.

Gas engines have caught up to, and likely surpassed, the diesel engines of just 10 years ago.

Give them 5 more years to figure out all the emissions BS. Diesel engines today are where gas engines were in the late 1970s. It used to be the wild west, then the government cracked down. The auto makers patched on smog pumps and EGR valves and engines pretty much sucked for about 15 years. Then, in the late 80s and early 90s, they kind of figured it out. Today, you can get a gas engine that makes 400+ horses and gets over 20 MPG and will run 200,000 miles without even changing spark plugs.

The same thing will happen with diesels. Someone will figure out a recipe that meets emissions without all the BS we have now. But, it's not here yet. I'll wait.

That was simply Fuel Infection.
Nothing more, nothing less.
"Drive-ability" was far better from the same motor/truck combination as well.


Leo:

Another option is to fetch a clean used one owner southern truck.
I picked up a 2006 from Florida 2 yrs ago.
I was debating between a new gasser, or a used oil burner. I decided that with the amount of miles that I have been puting on my truck the last few yrs - that this way the body would rott out about the same time the motor finally got tired.

But mine is a 1 ton with a flatbed. If I was buying a 3/4 ton, I would most likely have went new/gas.



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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
That was simply Fuel Infection.
Nothing more, nothing less.
"Drive-ability" was far better from the same motor/truck combination as well.

That's a little simplified. I had a 89 F-150 with "EFI". It had a smog pump (seized up on me once). It had an EGR. It had a cat converter. It had no power. I had to replace the injectors once. That thing left me walking at least 5 times that I can remember.

Had a buddy with a 95ish Mustang. Overhead cam engine. Plenty of power, good mileage, emissions friendly. It wasn't the same old 302, it was a whole new engine. And it worked.
 
I have heavier trucks.... looking for something a little easier to park and still useful. Generally when I have a receiver hitch trailer on its 10k- ish. My gooseneck weighs about 7500 empty ( and I have the dot ticket grossing 29,300 behind a 2008 ram 3500 drw cummins). Will it spend a majority of its time empty- yes- but it will tow on average 30 miles a week during the summer with the monthly 100 mile round trip thrown in.
The local dealer has a 6.4 gasser en route.... but I have not had a gas truck since 2001. I don't want to get something I hate.
 
That's a little simplified. I had a 89 F-150 with "EFI". It had a smog pump (seized up on me once). It had an EGR. It had a cat converter. It had no power. I had to replace the injectors once. That thing left me walking at least 5 times that I can remember.

Had a buddy with a 95ish Mustang. Overhead cam engine. Plenty of power, good mileage, emissions friendly. It wasn't the same old 302, it was a whole new engine. And it worked.

Well, the last Ford that I owned was back when "Ranger" was a package, not a truck.
I'd still take a '75 Highboy 3/4 ton with 38.5's. :D

I have been real impressed with my [fuel infected] Chivy gasser 1/2 tons (all 'Burbans x 3) and I still have 2 totaling <800K miles.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
I have heavier trucks.... looking for something a little easier to park and still useful. Generally when I have a receiver hitch trailer on its 10k- ish. My gooseneck weighs about 7500 empty ( and I have the dot ticket grossing 29,300 behind a 2008 ram 3500 drw cummins). Will it spend a majority of its time empty- yes- but it will tow on average 30 miles a week during the summer with the monthly 100 mile round trip thrown in.
The local dealer has a 6.4 gasser en route.... but I have not had a gas truck since 2001. I don't want to get something I hate.


I was looking at the Dodge with the "big" Hemi. (I guess there's two now'days)

But a Chivy with that 8.1 will pull stumps - if they still make it?

Last I knew - Ford didn't have a big gasser since they dropped the V10?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
[/I]I'd still take a '75 Highboy 3/4 ton with 38.5's. :D

We had a 77 with a 351 Cleveland and a 4 speed granny gear trans. That's the only truck I ever drove where you could see the gas gauge move.

My grandpa put a piece of 1" plate in the bed and chained 2 stages of scaffolding to it. He used that setup to dismantle a school gymnasium and reassemble it across town (it was just a steel building). Then we used it for hauling fire wood for years after that. With chains on all 4 tires it could pretty much go anywhere. It even had brakes on one front wheel.
 
I have heavier trucks.... looking for something a little easier to park and still useful. Generally when I have a receiver hitch trailer on its 10k- ish. My gooseneck weighs about 7500 empty ( and I have the dot ticket grossing 29,300 behind a 2008 ram 3500 drw cummins). Will it spend a majority of its time empty- yes- but it will tow on average 30 miles a week during the summer with the monthly 100 mile round trip thrown in.
The local dealer has a 6.4 gasser en route.... but I have not had a gas truck since 2001. I don't want to get something I hate.

I suggest you at least test drive a gas if given the opportunity.

The manufacturers aren't really to blame for the current diesel offerings. They are just doing the best they can to still produce decent power and fair economy while having to stay within current government regs. The reason diesels are the way they are today lies directly at the feet of big brother.
 
You know that Clevelands never came in trucks OEM, right?


15 gal tank behind the seat?



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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 








 
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