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Wiping bottom of material while suspended

BurnItAll

Plastic
Joined
Aug 1, 2017
This is an odd ball question but its recently come to my attention that all our tie strap/lifting magnet/ibolt manufacturers recommend staying clear of the load completely. Yes, its a no brainer you don't want the P20 block you are hoisting via an overhead crane into a cnc mill to crush you. Yet how are you suppose to wipe the bottom of the block off and stone it before setting it in the machine then? Is it expected to set it on its side each time to do this? Also what about when the material comes in raw right off the truck with chips still on it and no bolt holes and no safe way to tip it on its side? This is becoming a thought puzzle for me since all the major authorities (OSHA,ASME,etc.)on this aren't providing any answers on how to perform this basic task I do everyday in the shop. How would you do it in a way that would protect both the employee and the employer? Looking to hear what other shops out there are doing when loading there machines.

Cheers,
Kodi
 
Maybe a 2 step process where block is placed on a rack like saw horses so to speak then clear area "processed " then moved to clear the areas providing support then finished.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
 
Tony,

Thank you for your input. I like the idea here for when a block enters the building. But what about moving from a cnc mill to edm machine for example; chips and coolant get underneath it every time you lift the blocks up and transport them around the shop. Since a block might sit on the rack waiting to go into another machine for a few days and its likely a different operator is putting it into a different machine. The next operator has to make sure its still flat/cleaned on the bottom when they put it in the next machine to ensure the Z comes out the same as the last process performed. Forgot to mention .0001-.0002 is our normal tolerance on parts.

Cheers,
Kodi
 
Sound like you have the classic "rollover" problem.

In your case, a rollover machine might be the answer, set it down flat with the crane,
actuate the roll over, and the bottom would be exposed as the side, so you could safely
do your hand work.
 
Tony,

Thank you for your input. I like the idea here for when a block enters the building. But what about moving from a cnc mill to edm machine for example; chips and coolant get underneath it every time you lift the blocks up and transport them around the shop. Since a block might sit on the rack waiting to go into another machine for a few days and its likely a different operator is putting it into a different machine. The next operator has to make sure its still flat/cleaned on the bottom when they put it in the next machine to ensure the Z comes out the same as the last process performed. Forgot to mention .0001-.0002 is our normal tolerance on parts.

Cheers,
Kodi

If that is your normal tolerance, you have other things to worry about! Seriously though, I've always just used straps and/or a magnet. If you are concerned with safety, do what Tony says and establish some procedure to put the part onto sawhorses, wipe/stone clean, then re-position...
 
This is an odd ball question but its recently come to my attention that all our tie strap/lifting magnet/ibolt manufacturers recommend staying clear of the load completely. Yes, its a no brainer you don't want the P20 block you are hoisting via an overhead crane into a cnc mill to crush you. Yet how are you suppose to wipe the bottom of the block off and stone it before setting it in the machine then? Is it expected to set it on its side each time to do this? Also what about when the material comes in raw right off the truck with chips still on it and no bolt holes and no safe way to tip it on its side? This is becoming a thought puzzle for me since all the major authorities (OSHA,ASME,etc.)on this aren't providing any answers on how to perform this basic task I do everyday in the shop. How would you do it in a way that would protect both the employee and the employer? Looking to hear what other shops out there are doing when loading there machines.

Cheers,
Kodi

.
i do not stand with my feet or body under the load if i can. i can reach and stone the bottom and if it falls i would move my hand out of the way and take a step back in case it bounces off the floor.
.
usually lifting magnets are the worse. pick up a inch and tap with a hammer. if magnetic force not enough it will only drop a inch. i never stand under lifting magnet. i reach out to get to bottom always leaving room to move hands back out of the way and room to back up if it falls
 
Digg Doug, Intriguing idea I've been thinking of making a contraption to do this. I'd prefer something that's already tried and true. Any products that you know of that will do this I couldn't find a "rollover" machine upon googling.

Mike1974, the tolerance of the finished part isn't as extreme its just the compounding errors stacking that ruin it when moving it from machine to machine so I like to keep it under .0001-.0002 during any given setup.

DMF_TomB, that's what I've been doing for years up until recently when we revamped our safety training/manual. However, as an employee if I get injured using a product against the manufacturers warnings its all on me. Also if my employer says its fine for me to do it despite the manufacturers warnings it appears they wouldn't be fully covered. It's not a good situation for anyone if an accident ever happened. Its a thought puzzle for me lately. Seems straight forward but its the legalize that gets in the way of doing what should be a simple process.

Keep the ideas coming please,
Kodi
 
whats the matter with a mop, or a rag tied to the end of a stick? you can easily wipe down a part without standing under it if you use an extension handle, like the ones painters use to roll paint on ceilings. Seems cheaper and faster than a 20 or 30 thousand dollar rollover jig for a crane.
 
whats the matter with a mop, or a rag tied to the end of a stick? you can easily wipe down a part without standing under it if you use an extension handle, like the ones painters use to roll paint on ceilings. Seems cheaper and faster than a 20 or 30 thousand dollar rollover jig for a crane.

+1

Stay out from under. Old saying: "He who sups with the Devil should have a long spoon".

MAKE some "stuff". Stand-off and reach-out tools for cleaning that underside that are as clever and high-tech as the given task justifies for that "mop" (like) device.

On a frame. As a table, counterweighted. Portable or fixed. Powered - and with sensors, if need requires that. Need drives design, form follows function. Man is a tool-making animal, etc. Couldn't possibly be as simple as something involving compressed air or hot water emulsion blast or vacuum. Could it?

I've never had to crawl down INSIDE fifty feet of sewer line to clear it. Oil wells? You would NOT believe...

There can be bespoke cleaning tools and inspection devices for this job, too!

Good chance you can just ORDER them as well. Can't be the first Pilgrim, EVER, to need such of a thing.
 
whats the matter with a mop, or a rag tied to the end of a stick? you can easily wipe down a part without standing under it if you use an extension handle, like the ones painters use to roll paint on ceilings. Seems cheaper and faster than a 20 or 30 thousand dollar rollover jig for a crane.


Well, that little rollover device is about $5k. And something could be made in-house
for less.

The O.P. is working to a bit finer tolerance, and needs to STONE the underside,
and that requires CLOSE VISUAL INSPECTION.
 
usually i
.
1) wipe part with alcohol soaked rag
.
2) stone part with air gun blowing rag lint away. feeling if clean. looking for smears (half dried coolant) needing more wiping with alcohol soaked rag
.
3) if bottom of part rusty stone is needed also sometimes nylon abrasive pad to remove rust too
 
working to a bit finer tolerance, and needs to STONE the underside,
and that requires CLOSE VISUAL INSPECTION.

Rollover capability to-hand is righteous, a capability-enhancer, time and risk-saver regardless. Some reliable form of it should "be there" for any shop that has to handle the goods needing that.

But cameras and other remote sensors assist with guiding that sort of stuff every day.

How often is there actual damage in need of correction, not just crud? Can that damage be reduced at source by different handling in some another part of the process?
 
Awesome replies here. Been a long time reader. You guys are great at spit balling.

Digg Doug, you hit the nail on the head on the tolerance and inspection part. Mostly its how it feels when I slide a stone under the part or my hand that is important. Its amazing as a mold builder what you'll feel in your materials that you wouldn't be able to see. I'm looking into the tilting table option you recommended.

Not trying to make a mouse trap of a solution here. But it is a real problem that no one seems to have addressed in this industry, at least in the US. Everyone that's an authority such as OSHA is only telling me what not to do but not how to solve my now daily problem. ASME makes a standard for lifting equipment. That the Manufacturer references for their product. Then OSHA references the manufacturers recommendations/warnings and it becomes a black hole. :wall: We have multiple overhead cranes and multiple lifting solutions but not one for before you get a bolt hole in the block to pivot it up on its side. Other than getting a bunch of guys to flip it up which sometimes they are just to big to make that practical. That's why I'm reaching out. I've already contacted our vendors and gotten some hilarious responses. :D

Thanks again,
Kodi
 
I can't find the other one I have seen, it's more of a "3/4 pie" side pieces, with a large
gear around it.

whatever you get (or fab up yourself) you need a large, heavy lip (1/2" plate) around the
edges of both "tables" so when you do the roll over, you then slide it away from the
other face (to get access to the former bottom, now a side to clean it) and you don't
want it sliding off, onto the floor (or your shins)
 
gotten some hilarious responses. :D

Major industry, these solutions, more than a hundred years, already.

Dee-troit, Pittsburgh, Newport News.. oilfields onshore and off..whole railcars run into a rig and turned inverted for dumping and such. Fixture, die and mold handling? Must be two million years of collective human experience at every possible nuance of THAT!

What you need is "out there", and might even be - as Doug pointed out - relatively cheap for how long it can last and the time it can save.
 
We use to just wipe stuff like this, to do it safely you just keep it raised just off some blocks, wipe the area between cribbing, then rinse and repeat after repositioning the blocks so your squidgy arm - body is never the bit it would land on! Really simple and totally safe technique used with care. Its generally considered safe to be under a load thats suitably cribbed hence this should pass and H&S requirements just fine.

I always worked on the theory whilst its bad practice to ever be under something raised, if you did not have the confidence to be under it its equally a unsafe lift and you should not be lifting it off the floor because something clearly is making you concerned about the lift and it pays to give thoughts like this - gut feelings of doom some serious respect!

I have seen lifts fail too and things fall, but never seen anyone hurt that way, every-time i have seen some one hurt is when something has gone side ways - slipped off. That in my experience is how most get injured during lifts! Something slides, something gets knocked over and the threat - harm comes side ways not vertically! its why you always want the least number of people around a lifting area.
 
Major industry, these solutions, more than a hundred years, already.

Dee-troit, Pittsburgh, Newport News.. oilfields onshore and off..whole railcars run into a rig and turned inverted for dumping and such. Fixture, die and mold handling? Must be two million years of collective human experience at every possible nuance of THAT!

What you need is "out there", and might even be - as Doug pointed out - relatively cheap for how long it can last and the time it can save.

We don't need to roll over the whole building Bill....nor even the machine tool....:D
rail car dumper - Google Search

I was going to suggest the "2 hook" rollover using 1 crane with an additional hook, however
the O.P. may not have provision in the part for 2 lifting eyes. The problem here,
is that even though your "bottom" surface is now "up" it's still hanging on a crane hook, and hard to work a stone on it whilst swinging.

and yes, the roll over table is nothing more than a large hinge, a cylinder, and a pump/tank.
 
We use to just wipe stuff like this, to do it safely you just keep it raised just off some blocks, wipe the area between cribbing, then rinse and repeat after repositioning the blocks so your squidgy arm - body is never the bit it would land on! Really simple and totally safe technique used with care. Its generally considered safe to be under a load thats suitably cribbed hence this should pass and H&S requirements just fine.


This is how I do it. I'm interested to know if there's an official OSHA specified procedure to follow.
 








 
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