Thread: Coolant recommendation for 250-II MSY

Hi.

We use DoALL Kleen - Kool and run plastic and alumminum on our lathe.
On most days it's fine on others again it's foaming like hell and going over top the chip conveyor and Im about to put my swim suite on

2 month ago we replaced the coolant. Cleanded everything out nice filled her up again and still have the same problems once in a while.

Is it possible to reduce the pressure on the coolant pump output??
Would DeFoam fix my problem or is there anything else I could check first berfore trying diffrent coolant brands.

There is also some weird sludge build-up everytime I clean the pump screens.

Thanks
HeikoS

COOLANT


FOAM


SLUDGE

If your foaming problem is intermittent, then it may be due to your pump sucking air. If your screens are blocked by chips and sludge and your coolant level is not topped off then you may be sucking air. That's the first thing I'd check. Every defoamer I've ever tried had very temporary effects at best. We were adding it once or twice a day and it didn't fix the problem.....only knocks down the foam for a spell. Also, I wouldn't add anything to your coolant unless your coolant company's chemists say it's okay. The "sludge" in your photo appears to be mold that often grows in sumps. Your coolant supplier can arrange to have samples sent for testing. If it is mold, then a switch to a "bio-stable" coolant such as Houghton's HOCUT 795B, or QualiChem's XtremeCut 250C, etc. would fix that problem. I have never cured a mold issue without switching brands because there's something in that coolant the mold is thriving on. I sure do hate coolant problems.....Good luck with that.

Brian

I see that your KLEEN-KOOL is a synthetic coolant......is there any particular reason why since you machine plastic and aluminum? It says right on the label that it's designed for medium to heavy machining applications. It may be time to spec-out a proper coolant for your application.

Brian

Hi Brian.
Thanks for the info.
Found out that if its foaming the pump screen at the bottom is completely plugged with sludge and tiny chips.

The bigger problem here is probably to find out more about the sludge.

Is it possible that oil is getting in the coolant somehow and creating the sludge or is mold the only possibility.

Could you recommend a coolant for aluminum and plastic.
We have a Mazak QuickTurn Nexus 250-II MSY.

Thanks so far
Heiko

Hi Heiko,

As far as a coolant made specifically for aluminim and plastics, I myself do not know of one. We are currently in the process of changing over to a coolant called XtremeCut 250C from Qualichem. It's a semi-synthectic designed for wide range of materials which suits us fine since we're a production jobshop and cut everthing from inconel, stainless, alloy steels, brass, aluminum, plastics.....you name it. I first tried this coolant out in a VMC, and after 6 months of testing we are now switching all our machines that use water based coolant over, on by one, incuding our Mazak QuickTurn Nexus 250-II MSY. This coolant has outlasted anything else that I have tried and does not foam with our high pressure units. Also, it's the first coolant that my operators have not complained about. There's a link to a product spec sheet below. Good luck.

Brian

http://www.qtstools.com/TechInfo/XtremeCut250C.pdf

Interested how things are going with the XtremeCut in the QTN 250-II MSY. Any foaming issues or other things to report? We are currently using a semi-synthetic from Hangsterfer's. The only thing we really dislike about it is that when running a lot of iron, the graphite out of the iron combines with the little bit of sticky film left on tools and surfaces to create a nasty black grime that gets all over you when making setups. The aluminum machines are clean as a whistle.

--Gary

Gary,

So far so good. I am in the process of changing the entire shop over to XtremeCut. We have had it in our MSY for about 6 months now with no foaming, odors, excessive tramp oils from coolant breaking down. I have had in two of my VMC's for 10 months now. Both sumps are in great condition. We keep our skimmers running. Keep our sump level full. Check and adjust concentration regularly. We also monitor pH.

Two material that are notorious for ruining coolant are Cast Iron and Brass. Both materials will build up in every crack and crevice in your machine compartment, chip conveyor, and sump where they rust or corrode. The Graphite from Cast Iron and the Copper from the Brass leach into coolant mixture, evident by the change of color, and leave a slimy film the builds up quickly. After long runs of either material, we try to schedule a sump cleaning/refilling asap. I have never really noticed much difference in coolants in these regards.

Brian

Hi everyone

Heiko has moved on to a new company, so i will be reviving one or two of his threads since his problems are now my problems.

We are about to switch to oemeta novamet 100 coolant, which is supposed to be more bio-stable than the kleen kool. I really want to put the kill on this mold we have - does anyone have a recommendation of a cleaner to run through the machine before we re-fill with the new product? Can I get away with a bleach solution? I have no experience with this so any help would be appreciated.

The current plan is pump out the sump, clean it and the conveyor possibly by hauling it over to the nearby carwash ( after scooping all the sludge, etc.), then run something through the system for a few hrs before refilling with new
product. Sound fine?

Ok, answered my own dumb question with a bit of looking. The supplier recommends adding cleaner to the existing coolant, cycling, then cleaning the sump and refilling. Looks like it'll be next weeks project after all.

I would think twice about taking your coolant tank and conveyor to the carwash as there may be environmental laws governing this because your coolant residues will be washing into the sewer. We have a pressure washer of our own. And a barrel of floor dry.

Brian

To update our situation, we have upgraded from Hangsterfer's 737 to their higher-end (higher-priced) 787 semi-synthetic. It seems to improve the tooling life a little bit. Quite a bit better for stainless. The smell of it is more appealing to us. It feels more slippery to the touch at 10% concentration than the other stuff did at say 14% (which was a little higher than recommended). Not yet convinced it is a lot better from the standpoint of graphite residue left on tooling. I do think it is an improvement though. No problems with any of the Hangsterfer's stuff as far as sump life goes. No mold, foul smells, rusting chips or anything of that nature. Even in the machines that run a lot of iron, no sump issues. We clean them out thoroughly every 4-6 months or when absolutely necessary.

--Gary

I have the exact same machine you have Mazak quick turn nexus 250-II-msy. I use cimcool cimteck 500 I machine brass, bronze, 302, 316, 416 ss, cast iron, cast steel, cast stainless, lots of 1045crs and 4140crs, and last but least 1018crs. I have never had a foaming problem with this coolant, and also never had any thing growing in my coolant. Witch is very nice, does not get a bad odor either.

If you do alot of alum you might even try castrol alusol it is made for alum machining. the last place I worked we machined a ton of alum on our mills and I had them change over this and it worked great, no odor or growing things in your tank.

Going all the way to the top, and the pictures, there are a couple of things to consider. I'm not familiar with the DOALL, but inexpensive "loose emulsion" coolants can have their chemistry pulled apart by plastic machining. Plastic is made with petroleum and of course there is petroleum and petroleum derivatives in the coolant, and they have an affinity for each other. It often appears as a cheese or even a floating scum that looks like fungus. Keeping as much plastic as possible out of the sump is always smart. The picture looks like a combo of plastic dust and aluminum oxide dust. Also, how hard is the water? For a variety of reasons a machine shop should at least run their tap water through a basic carbon filter(R/O water is the textbook standard). A home-type carbon cartridge filter will make a big difference. A better quality "tight emulsion" coolant could also help. Qualichem Xtreme Cut 250 is a premium semisynthetic. It has Chip Blaster approval, and is actually doesn't have any defoamer in it. It is just built in such away that it doesn't entrap air.

well, the switch is done. we had already bought the barrel of Oemeta Novamet 100 based on supplier recommendation so it was too late to turn back on that. I dont know if it would be considered a 'loose emulsion ' or not, or where it sits on the low/high quality scale, but with a clean tank, mixed 20:1 , it looks pretty good. definitely better viscosity than the old 'creamed corn' ( so called for its smell). it didnt foam at all, which is great, although i did add a bit of anti foam by the same company. i did convince mgmt to just rent us a pressure washer instead of going to the car wash with the tank, avoiding any possible environmental hassles.

our water is relatively hard. i will have to watch for changes in the coolant after we run plastic next, and see what happens.

If you are still not happy with your coolant choice then you should look at Master Chemical MS585XT. This is the latest technology coolant formulated for hard water, will not split and works in mexed metal situations. Great on gray iron and molybdenum which both destroy coolants. Had coolant that was splitting within two weeks on the moly and changed to 585XT which has been in the sump almost a year. Very bio-stable also with no issues.

the novamet has been good so far. definitely better cutting and less foam than the DoAll. and no wierd sludge. Unfortunately i pumped it full of hydraulic oil while the tech was here 2 weeks ago , and had to do a complete drain and refill again... bad communication about what was loose and what wasnt.