Thread: Fusion key&door locks

Hello,

Just got in a nice used Mazak with a Fusion control and all the locking features are activated, We are a batch production to prototype mom & pop shop. We are in the machines all the time and all the keylock stuff do not seem like real durable components.
We have several M+ and T+ machines, I forgot those even had keys.
Can someone please help me out, I wasted an hour the other day trying to figure out how to open the door.
We ware safety glasses and have a fromal school every wedensday morning for an hour coverying everything from quaility to machine setup, the Mazak techs in the past never even bothered to ask, I guess this is the down side of buying a used machine.
I know I saw a string on this a while back on here but I am not too good with this site yet so if someone just wants to take a guess at what they think they saw that would be cool.
I think the door lock is going to give the "dead beat" (4444) alarm on the Haas machines a run for the money! But in Mazak's defense it is a MSY lathe, it dose get pretty busy in there.

Have a nice day!

LandM1

there is not an easy way past those safety's

Haven't used the Fusion on an MSY lathe, but I have used it on an HMC.

If the machine is in cycle, I either hit feed hold, or single block, then switch to MPG mode and it stops the spindle. At this point, the door can be opened by just hitting the "door open" button. After I'm done looking at whatever I'm looking at, I just close the door, switch back to Memory mode, and hit cycle start.

I only have to turn the setup key if I want to jog the machine while the door is open. Is your machine set up so that you have to turn the setup key just to get the door open?

Joe,

Interesting trick. Could you explain MSY mode and how to get there?

Stu

Originally Posted by Stuart Caruk

Joe,

Interesting trick. Could you explain MSY mode and how to get there?

Stu

Stu, when I say MPG mode I just mean the "JOG/HANDLE" mode. I was a Fanucker in a former life, and it was always "MPG-Manual Pulse Generator".

On the Matrix control on an otherwise same machine, it works the same was as long as I'm in cycle, and the spindle isn't oriented. Also on the Matrix, anytime I want to open the door in the manual mode, I have to turn the key, then hold the door open switch to open the door. VERY frustrating, but from what I've heard, there's no way around it. Also, the Matrix is limited to about 40ipm anytime the setup key is turned, which is PAINFULLY slow. Supposedly it's built into the ladder.

Ah thanks. You read my mind. I hate the limitations with the key on our Matrix Integrex. Since I own it, and run it I did the remove the glue that hols the door lock key screws in place and simply leave the key in the interlock.

I'd rather leave the key as it's supposed to be used, but have yet to find a way to simply stop the motion, open the door, clear a snarl and go back to work. Having to push reset and then restart from the unit head takes way to long. Having to flip a key, then poush a button to open a door at the end of a program is just poor engineering IMHO.

Thanks for the clarification.

Stu

It's not poor engineering, it's over engineering and you can thank the lawyers for the PITA it causes. Mazak got nailed over the safeties and this is the result. There is no way around it.
Stuart, I'd be very careful about mentioning what you have in a public forum. It could bring about some expensive issues.

Originally Posted by Stuart Caruk

Ah thanks. You read my mind. I hate the limitations with the key on our Matrix Integrex. Since I own it, and run it I did the remove the glue that hols the door lock key screws in place and simply leave the key in the interlock.

I'd rather leave the key as it's supposed to be used, but have yet to find a way to simply stop the motion, open the door, clear a snarl and go back to work. Having to push reset and then restart from the unit head takes way to long. Having to flip a key, then poush a button to open a door at the end of a program is just poor engineering IMHO.

Thanks for the clarification.

Stu

I had an Niigata HMC set up in the past that was PERFECT. The door did not have a lock. When the door was opened, it instantly went into feedhold, stopped the coolant, and stopped the spindle. You could poke your head in, do what you needed, close the door, and hit cycle start. It would start the coolant, and after the spindle ramped up, it would resume cutting.

Any more interlocks than that, and people start getting hurt. If you make steam come out of people's ears with a 7 step process for opening a door, eventually they do exactly what you did, and just disconnect the interlock altogether, which obviously is 100% opposite of their intended goal.

Joe - your old nigata is exactly like my Haas is - How come they get away with it while Mazak has to have all the freakin fort knox crap!?

Oh - and a quick setting change on the Haas completely bypasses the door locks completely. Not that I would ever do that.

Being someone who hopes to get into a Mazak someday, this seems a tad frustrating.

Originally Posted by tc1999

Joe - your old nigata is exactly like my Haas is - How come they get away with it while Mazak has to have all the freakin fort knox crap!?

Oh - and a quick setting change on the Haas completely bypasses the door locks completely. Not that I would ever do that.

Being someone who hopes to get into a Mazak someday, this seems a tad frustrating.

I think it's only a matter of time before Haas has the same garbage. Mori was the first major builder to take interlocks to the EXTREME (presumably, because they were the first to get sued). I ran a 1994 SL-30 lathe that had more interlocks than the brand new Matrix control. It was completely insane. Some of them were even based on timers! If you left the set-up key turned for too long, it had to be turned off and back on before you could continue your work.

People like this are the reason we have to deal with so many button's and switches now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL1AgOqnYYE

Holy crap, Joe! That video is nuts!

I bet that is only the tip of the iceberg for horrible Chinese work conditions. Absolutely unbelievable.

Originally Posted by tc1999

Holy crap, Joe! That video is nuts!

I bet that is only the tip of the iceberg for horrible Chinese work conditions. Absolutely unbelievable.

Chinese "automation" at it's finest!

All of this can be switched on/off.... I won't give them up (for many reasons) but it's in the books...

I'm not the least concerned with what I post in a pulic forum. I'd never post anything I wouldn't say in public or in front of a jury...

In my case, It's my Integrex, I'm the only person who runs it and I choose to disable the safety key simply becasue it's just about impossible to set up this machine with the key installed as the machine is designed.

Just in case Mazak wants to take issue though, I've got time stamped still and video pictures of the machines operating in their facility with the screws out of the key and the keys left in the interlock. the machines are all running with the safeties defeated. Yet another case of do as I say, not as I do. If Mazaks own operators are frustrated enough to defeat the interlocks, don't you think they could come up with a better idea?

My Fadal for example automatically turns off the coolant and stops the spindle as well if the door is opened. reach in, do what you need to do, then close the door, hit cycle start and the coolant and spindle restart, hit it again and it goes back to cutting. Why can't Mazak do the same?

I agree Stuart... in my case though... Mazak isn't the problem... And in fact, most cases isn't an issue with Mazak unless the machine is still under warranty. Then by law, when they leave it, all safety items must be functional if it's still in place. This is a liability/warranty issue.

Mazak and all other MTBs have placed in these ridiculous safety measures to protect themselves from us, not the other way around. They're not necessarily trying to screw you but trying to keep "us" from screwing them. Do you know how many law suits and liability charges MTBs have lost because some A-hole in a factory decided to sue the factory for their own stupidity and operator ignorance? Even as a legitamite 'accident', companies have sued the factory (and won) in order to avoid a Workman's Comp claim or Employee Insurance claims that would possibly raise the liability cost for the shop. If the blame can be placed to someone else instead of sucking it up and dealing with it, many places will choose that route.

In my case, I published a response some years back where a "casual reader" got hurt trying something he didn't understand. Although it got thrown out, it cost me tons. So for certain things, I'll show the path... up to them to figure out how to get out of the forrest.

Ouch, Psycho - Thanks for the heads up.