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Got wind of a few QT15's for sale - looking for info

Wade C

Stainless
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Location
Wiggins CO. USA
Long story short, friend of a friend passed along some info about a guy trying to get rid of a few Mazak QT15 machines, and is kind of in a hurry to do so.
Im just getting wind of this as it was mentioned to my buddy, and he thought of me... and passed along what info he knew.

The machines are in IL, SW of Chicago bout 100 miles it seems. two 1989 QT15s that are hooked to power, and an 1988 that is a "parts machine".
No one there knows anything about them, and the guy that bought them never hired anyone to run them... they were bought, hooked to power, and sat. For how long? Dont know. And of the two powered up, the displays will not come on. Supposedly have all the manuals with them.

Ive been told a rough price, and that he the guy is in a hurry to move them, and might go lower.

Dont know what control they have yet, or much else... But I have been reading up as much as I have had time for just trying to get some specs and a feel for the machines. In the process I thought, maybe I should just post up here, and get some input from those that have/have had this vintage of machine and what thier thoughts were... major issues to watch out for etc...

I have read that proper phasing of the power supply is important... and wonder if thats why the monitors are not working on the two powered up machines.

I figured if there were good thoughts about the model of machine in general, that I might try and track down someone to go inspect them for me since Im a long ways off and dont know enough about them specifically to be qualified to check much out.

My gut reaction is "RUN AWAY" and not even get them checked out... but its times like this where one sometimes runs into a diamond that looks like a lump of coal.

Would any of you mind sharing your thoughts and opinions on the 88-89 vintage QT15?

Thanks
Wade
 
They were probably nice machines once. IMO sitting unused for long periods of time is about the worst thing you can do to a CNC. I'd rather have high hours than 10 years under a tarp.
 
I highly doubt that phase rotation has anything to doo with CRT not working.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
Not so much concerned about the phase rotation of things (hyd pumps and such) but having the wild leg on the control line... but dont know if there is any validity to that... Had just read a post where someone had said not being phased correctly was hard on the control components.

I guess just strikes me as odd that both machines have the CRT not working... would some how doubt that they were "bought that way"... but one never knows.

Wade
 
The only CNC item that I have ever heard of being "phase specific" would be some spindle drives, and those will have a "phase direction" indicator light on them. But any machine that has been already used should be able to simply check hydro pump direction and ass_u_me everything else to be fine.

I have ran up to 10 CNC's on RPC's for +20 yrs and to date I don't know that I have any maintenance issues that I can blame on the RPC. The RPC may cause a brown-out (fault) if it aint got enough umph for accel/deccel or even a rapid move (dealing with that right now) but nothing that would likely hurt any components. But of course there are times for everything...

Note - I doo not speak Mazak - so take that with a grain of salt, although I doo have an older Mitsubishi.


BTW - still got a lot of chickens in your area?
(Or have I already asked you that?)


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Dreams I'll Never See
Ox
 
Thanks Ox, I just dont know anything about them, and seems like when ever you want to find something you cant come up with the right search terms, and when you "aint interested" you bump into that stuff a day long... Par for course. :D

As far as chickens... you mean as in egg layin chickens? or ditch chickens (pheasants) or Thunder Chickens (wild turkeys)? Cant say I remember you asking me... We only have 6 of our original 24 layers left... old age has taken a toll. They are 4 years old now I think? maybe 5?

Wade
 
I run an 89 and a 91, the 89 has a t2 controller, which will do whatever you need it to.

The only thing that frustrates me about the 89 is that the conveyor goes out the back, and it's VERY hard to get a skimmer to fit in that tiny space. I highly prefer the conveyer out the side.
 
I have read that proper phasing of the power supply is important... and wonder if thats why the monitors are not working on the two powered up machines.

as ox stated
you got lot bigger problems in there than rotation
its going to depend greatly on your skill set
if the tv's won't even come on i would say there mostly scrap to anyone but a mazak repairman
 
Hey Wade,

I think you would like the Mazaks, pretty nice stuff to play with.

Unless they are dirt dirt cheap, I'd pass, already been said, but a machine that has been sitting scares me, it usually is sitting because its broken and they
can't figure out how to fix it, regardless of what they say... I'm sure its only cut aluminum and plastic also.

As for phase and power to the control. Power to the control shouldn't matter, its got a multitap transformer, and it figures out what voltages go where, its
not like on some machines where you have to make sure you don't put the wild leg to the wire that goes to the control.

As for phase, if you are off phase, everything still powers up, but the motors spin backwards and you get a bunch of errors, just swap 2 wires and all is good.

The transformer may not be tapped for the correct supply voltage, that may be why your screen isn't coming up.
 
Ox,
Ole Bill Freeze... ask C.W. McCall... for about the truck load of chickens outta Wiggins. :D Been a few years since I heard that song. Not much in the way of chickens here, but a bit west in a town called Rogen, there is at least one big one... which could have been the one that was spoke of in the song too... hard to say. But gotcha! I missed that connection... by a long ways. But got it now. :D

BobW
Guess it depends on what dirt cheap is - the price I got for all three was less than I paid for my 95 Fadal 4020HT. But itll be an easy 1500-2000 in trucking and another 1500-1800 for rigging of them... so turns into a chunk just getting them here.
Not even sure the round about weight of those critters is to know what scrap value might be.
Not knowing the guy (being the friend of a friend type connection), I dont know if they wired it up or if an electrician did, or if he even knows and was around then. I guess in some ways, probably looking to find out if its even worth digging any deeper and stressing about it or just let it go... Or I guess could make a ridiculously low offer, and see what happens and play the site unseen game. I do know they have less than a month to get them gone.

Thanks all, and if you have any more thoughts, I got open ears and eyes.

Wade
 
I wouldn't ever sweat a friggen monitor as a reason to bail on a machine. They go dark over time. Expect to spend form $250-$1000 per monitor but if you can get a running lathe cheap it is definitely worth it. Hell the parts alone are worth more to someone with a machine than they ever would be scrapped.
 
I guess I wasnt so concerned with the fact that a monitor was bad, but that both are bad, and no idea who hooked it up, if its hooked up right, etc.... I hear what youre saying... I just dont know anything about Mazaks, and dont know how bullet proof they are and so on.

Thanks!
Wade
 
I wouldn't ever sweat a friggen monitor as a reason to bail on a machine. They go dark over time. Expect to spend form $250-$1000 per monitor

if it was just the monitor, the machine would come up, the nc would come on, you would here the hydraulics spin up, you could even home out the machine.
the impression i was getting was that nothing happened when you tried to turn machine on.
if its just "dark monitors" then by all means the machines would be worth a shot.

Expect to spend form $250-$1000 per monitor but if you can get a running lathe cheap it is definitely worth it

you'll need to find some sort of retrofit for that kind of money (if its out there to find)
last antique (t2 vintage) mits monitor i put in was way more than that

as far as what those machines are

they are rock solid, take a hit like a tank lathes

I've got t2's around here that will still hold a thou all day long hammerin' hex bar into bolts
but i also got 20 years workin' on them, a full time EE to dig into them when i don't have time and an account at mits and mazak that don't come out of my paycheck.
so i just want to caution mom and pop type operations that they can get kinda pricey runnin'
ask Captain Dave what he has spent this year keepin' his runnin' (and it was mostly all together working when it hit his floor).
 
I havent even been in the same state as the machines, and the guy that knows the most it sounds like knows nothing about CNCs... working on getting some more/better info...

Found a LCD retrofit for 450 listed somewhere... but didnt dig too deep.

Is Mazak half way nice to deal with for info? Or are they one of those that want you to pay thousands to "register" the used machine with them, and then a thousand a year for a main contract before they will connect you with the parts department?

Wade
 
i'm not sure where they are on support for used machines now
a few years back they wanted to go to a "suscribed support" sort of thing but i don't know how that went
there are a lot of people here that can get you through a lot of stuff but one unchanging issue is the cost of repair and replacing mitsubishi componenets. they are high dollar. that said guys like cnc cat does board level repairs on his own stuff and we just had another guy last month retro a low dollar hitachi spindle drive into an old #20.
all things are possible.
i'd call mazak right now and tell them what your lookin' at and see what they say
if you have serial numbers they can tell you a history somewhat depending on who had them
800-677-8311
 
I have spent the last 10 months or so repairing and tidying up a 86' QT20n.....the thing is running like a champ for now (fingers crossed). I bought mine for much less than scrap value (I paid $800.00).....the thing was absolutely hideous. My machine tag says 10,800 lbs. I borrowed a forklift and drove it on the road to where I did most of the repairs, which was a few miles away. I have moved my machine twice since then, and have spent about 300.00 dollars total doing so by using a roll off type wrecker with a winch and some machinery skates. It took less than an hour each time. It's something that might save you some money.

I was originally going to do a control retrofit on mine, but persevered through a fair amount of trouble to finally get the T2 going. I'm glad I did. The thing is so dang simple to program compared to a CAM system.

Mazak talked with me for free anytime I called about my machine. That said......for the most part, their help was worth every penny I paid them for it. There are very few guys left over there that even remember lathes from this vintage.

Mitsubishi was also free to talk with, and it was hit and miss with them on my old machine.

The guys on this forum answered a ton of questions for me. This is by far the most valuable Mazak "tech service" available......thanks again, guys!

If you are somewhat electronically and mechanically inclined, and have a tenacious personality..... I would say that you should be able to get those machines going with help from the guys here.....no matter what is wrong with them. If you can't work on the machine yourself, or just don't want to......it will likely cost you a small fortune to get them going. I imagine my machine would have cost $20,000 or more to have a Mazak tech fix everything that was wrong with it......and it would still look like a turd. I think a person can find running machines like mine that cost quite a bit less than that. Maybe $10,000 or less, I don't really know.

The manuals will cost you 800.00 from Mazak if they don't come with the machines. The electrical manual is a must have, for sure. I suspect I have spent 50 or 60 hours with my nose in mine.

I guess I have about $4000.00 or so into mine with the manuals......and untold amounts of time and labor. It's wasn't the ideal way to get into a lathe, but it was the only option that was available to me......and I actually had a good time getting to know the thing.

Good luck,

Mike
 
so i just want to caution mom and pop type operations that they can get kinda pricey runnin'
ask Captain Dave what he has spent this year keepin' his runnin' (and it was mostly all together working when it hit his floor).

Yes, they can get pricy at times but in all fairness we have had the machine for 7 years and until a couple of months ago the only non maintenance item we replaced was a PLG sensor for around $300. On the other hand, lately, we had the spindle drive overhauled $2800 or so then last week the rear was cover let go and is out for rebuild $2200 then we had a mystery electrical issue this week that that shut it down for a couple of days then decide to fix itself so we have know idea what that was all about.

lumped together its a tuff nut to swallow but amortized over 7 years I'm still well pleased with the machine.

Mazak's are rock solid and built like tanks, my son runs that machine at 100% spindle load 8 hours a day, day in and day out, I'm sure some of the other brands would be ready for the scrap heap by now.
 








 
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