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HTC-400 Incomplete Pallet Change

irelnd4evr

Plastic
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Location
Michigan, USA
I had an imcomplete pallet change yesterday. I got all the axis to home, but I can't get the exchange to complete. On the pallet screen the rotate CW or CCW don't appear to work either. Get error 128 - Outside Interlock Axis...I can reset, but doesn't seem to ever go away. I can give it a cycle start and the pallet exchange rotation seems to "creep" It turned about 3/4 of a revolution over 16 hours. Kind of weird. Tried MAZAK tech support, can't get through, left 3 voicemails, no returns. Any help is appreciated!

Thanks!
 
Hi, I just got your PM. I believe I have the steps written down that Mazak gave me. I'll try to get them posted later today. There were a couple parameters that had to be changed etc..
 
If all else fails I have a guy you can call and would walk you through it over the phone, I believe Volitan has talked to him too.
 
Is this normal? :eek:


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Sadly.... kinda of. We're so close to Mazak in NKY that getting service is no issue, yet we don't even use them. Too many great techs went out on their own in the area to bother with Mazak field service.
 
I had an imcomplete pallet change yesterday. I got all the axis to home, but I can't get the exchange to complete. On the pallet screen the rotate CW or CCW don't appear to work either. Get error 128 - Outside Interlock Axis...I can reset, but doesn't seem to ever go away. I can give it a cycle start and the pallet exchange rotation seems to "creep" It turned about 3/4 of a revolution over 16 hours. Kind of weird. Tried MAZAK tech support, can't get through, left 3 voicemails, no returns. Any help is appreciated!

Thanks!


OK, I have a minute now so here's what I remember..

The machine didn't finish the pallet change, and sat there with the airblast on. What I know now is that another member here (landm1?) found a chafed wire under the cover somewhere that was responsible for this behavior on his machine. I haven't looked yet but I've found that on the rare occasion it happens if I press the cycle start button again, it finishes.



Before I knew that and shut the machine off for the night in that condition...
Since the pallet was already over the table already, I had to use the MF1 button to hit the 'Single Pc Ready' button, then bring the table out to the Home 2 position, and push the clamp button.

I couldn't do that though, until I homed the machine, but I couldn't do that because of the outside interlock alarm. In order to get past that and home the machine, I had to go to the parameters M8 and M9 for the axes I was homing, write their values down, then put '9999999' in their place. That's when I was able to home the machine and finish the pallet change. Then I went back and put those M8 and M9 values back to what they were.

I'm pretty sure those values have to do with encoder counts, and overall travel of the machine. When you change them you can absolutely physically overtravel your machine and do some very serious damage because you are overriding the software limit (by giving it bogus values) so it's very very important that you go slow and make sure you are moving things in the correct direction.
 
Yes, I don't think I've encountered a more gracious and helpful person. Thanks again.

Not a problem. He's spent so much time at our shop that I've ended up becoming pretty good friends with him over the past couple years and have actually gone and done field service for him when he's in a pinch. You will not find a better service tech out there. We've got 7 Mazaks... and they're all getting older so they need some TLC these days so I've gotten pretty good with them.

Funny HTC story. When I was in school I co-op'd at Mazak in NKY. A guy there was asking about our shop and asked what machines we had etc etc. Told him we had a HTC-400... his response was.... "Well that sucks!". LOL They're not bad machines though... just have to know their limits.
 
Thanks! We'll give it a try...and still no word from Mazak...I've called Tech Support in KY and they re-direct me to the one in IL -or- IN...I might have to tell them I am from KY instead of MI. Thanks again.
 
Pallet change!

Hello,

You know I should have posted it but upon further inspection I found the chaffed wire was not the problem, the wire was rubbing on the bearing block
but not penatrated and it meged o.k. but I think I have found the main issue.

For some reason the HTC dose "NOT" like a G28Z0 before the pallet change, it might be some kind of conflict of the micro switches or a timming issue. Just do the M72 and it dose all the work. I have not had a problem in a while although it still hangs up once in a great while, push the run button and she goes.

It has been a great while since I had the safty spin pallet change, 16 hours, no way, mine is about 45 minuts, even at that, shut it down, clime up on the load station pallet, crack the hydrolic line to the pallet change cylinder and turn by hand, you are up in 10 minutes. Just put a rag under the fitting you will not loose too much fluid and it seems to de-pressurise with the machine off. Do be careful and always wear safty glasses.
I would not wast your time with Mazak on an HTC, there is just way too much going on with a pallet change. That pallet changer must be the most complicated device MazaK ever made!
Our new Doosan, if you forget to hit the ready button at the load station, if you push the button after the machine is looking for it, it goes, scares the heck out of you but the door has an electric lock so it is safe.

Good luck!

LandM1
 
Slow turn!

Hello again,

You did not say if you get the machine up and running. Just keep playing with it. Disconect the machine air for one, give the system a break. Hook the air back up, next trick is to get the pallet down. Be sure to have the Z axis away from the pallet change position and make sure the pallet is over the locators.
Go into the machine mode, pallet changer soft key, and pallet down soft key. I do not remember but there might even be an M code for pallet down. You have to get the pallet down before anything is going to happen. disconect the air again, let it settle, air on, pallet down. Don't worry about the error messages, I think that interlock crap is just some kind of a "anything not covered by the other five error messages"!
Once you get the Z axis out of the pallet change area your only issue is getting the pallet down and that miserable air shut off. Once the pallet is down you might want to power down, let things settle a bit, power up, home and pallet change.
We did a lot of that stuff our first year with the machine but things are running pretty good now.
There is a recommendation to pull one of the MAC air valves in the maintnance books, never did that though.
One thing that really helps is to run nice cool and dry air, we added a rotery compressor and a dryer a few years ago, really cut down on the M.T.B.F.
We also have not blown a QT20 turret motor since then either, hot air is no way to cool your components!

Good Luck!

LandM1
 
Getting closer...have used a little bit out of everyone's posts to get me where I am. We got everything homed...table back in position...and going to try the rest after I get a sandwich. Thanks again, I'll keep everyone posted.
 
Ugh...not sure what is going on...everything seems good...I can home everything, everything seems good to go...cycle start gives me a error 328 "pallet #1 cycle stop" , and the error 128 "outside interlock axis" comes back.

Nothing happens. Living the life of an untrained newbie here...thanks for your patience and help. I think it's beer:30.
 
operational mode!

Hello again,

What is it you are trying to do, run a program or just manual movements? Try some manual stuff first to see what your are dealing with. I would start with the simple stuff, "machine" hard key, tool changer soft key, tool changer door open, close soft key. Turret forward, clamp.
I would not recommend screwing with the pallet stuff until you know a little more.
Next do some M.D.I., soft keys first, tool, that will move the turret where you want it, next, tool change to an empty pocket, go on from there.

MDI "M3S1000" then "M5", spindle off.

Next, lock the pallet load station, make sure pallet is at 0 degrees, move selector switch to left, it should light up a green light, that means it is ready to change.
MDI "M72" that will rotate pallet #2 into machining position. If #2 is in the machine MDI "M71" that bring #1 into machining position.
If the green light is not lit next to the selector swith nothing will happen and if the door is not closed you will not even get a green light.
It sounds like you are calling up a pallet change without a green light.

Plan on spending at least a few days to learn the machine, it is not a verticle mill and you have to know how everything works and you have to learn by "doing", hundreds of times and then you have to deal with all the things that have been jacked around by the last owners.
Once you get it you will do fine but do not plan not making any money until you know the machine inside and out, no way around that, "welcome to the club"!
One clue that will save you a lot of time, to turn your offset page back to normal after doing the "automatic tool set" you have to push the "automatic tool set" soft key again, it is a toggle, I think that took me a whole day to figure that one out. Yes, the "automatic toolset" is really badass, there is nothing like loading up 8 or 10 tools and have them qualified automaticly while you are doing something else, real cool!
Do not jack around the tool changer, do not remove tools from the spindle, seems like every time I do it wants to spit the tool out before the tool change, do not ask me why!
Wacth out for bent tool fingers, if they miss the grooves on tool change you are screwed, #30 on mine is bent, some day I might think about fixing it.
Do not load tools in the magizine for the number of the tool that in in the spindle, it dose not know that tool is in there you can guess the rest!
Keep your rapids down for a week or two, use "op stop" and make sure your post is putting out "M01" before tool change! I never run mine over 50% rapid, these are really old machines!
Pull you covers on the Z axiz before you even think about running the machine and clean everything up. Pull the Y cover on the spindle, it is only anout 10 cap screws, clean that up and WD40. Mine failed early, over $4K, I fixed it four or five times and then just spent the money. On yea, blew the 4th axis motor, power supply and 4th axis dirve first week, the 4th axis cable was acting as a conduit for coolant to the cannon plug on the 4th axis motor, not cool!
You can watch everything running by pulling the cover on the front of the machine just below the load station, do not run production until you see how things are looking under the covers.
Once we got thing cleaned up it is a very well built machine and really runs well, well worth the learning curve.

Job one, change the Batteries, in the MRj2 unit for the 4th axis as well, these machines are really old, I did not, batteries died the first week, no warning, manually put in all the parameters, glad I did, learned a lot!
Got a 2007 Doosan a few months ago, making parts and money first day!

Good luck!

LandM1
 
Thanks...we have had the machine for about 5 years. It was setup to run a production job on one tombstone. We have been able to turn in on every few months make a thousand parts and then shut it off and forget about it, 'til the next quarter. However, it is being a pain in the neck this time, and can't get it started up....before the last week all we knew how to do was turn it on, home the axis and cycle start the program. That is why we are struggling so bad. The worst thing is I only need to run a couple more thousand parts and we can retire this bad boy. Thanks again for your help...

Right now we have everything homed and we go to cycle start the machine, getting the 328 and 128 errors.

Watching the U of M and MSU game...
 








 
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