Made stick tool holder for QT15 / Mazatrol T-2 ... upside down

I need to turn a ball groove on the OD of a part. I don't have any tool holders that hold a neutral angle tool that can cut deep enough. So I decided to use a stick tool. The Mazak stick tool holder for my 16 position turret isn't available and not made anymore. So I designed my own and made it this morning. Bolted right to the lathe on first try. I was pretty proud of myself. Until I turned on the spindle to do a test cut. Then I realized I made it "upside down".

Can I use an upside tool holder with the Mazatrol programming? I know I can set the spindle direction in the tool setup. If I set it to reverse and set the tool angle right (what would it be?), will all be good? Attached are photos of my (beautiful) tool holder and a portion of the print showing the OD groove I need to make.

Thanks!

-Jim

kb0thn said:

Can I use an upside tool holder with the Mazatrol programming? I know I can set the spindle direction in the tool setup. If I set it to reverse and set the tool angle right (what would it be?), will all be good? Attached are photos of my (beautiful) tool holder and a portion of the print showing the OD groove I need to make.

Click to expand...

Looks just fine to me. Run the spindle direction arrow backwards and describe the tool as a GNL OUT first angle 60°, second angle 60°, and enter the tip radius. Machine will automatically handle changing spindle directions during the program. I run most of my tooling 'backwards' as it is more rigid and way easier to change inserts.

Touching off the tool in Z is a bit tricky for these types of tools. You cannot just use 1/2 of the insert width. Go ahead and probe the side of the toolholder for Z. This will be used to get you started.

Easiest method is to finish turn a 45° chamfer on the front of a piece of stock using a CNMG tool already probed. Then switch the program to use the new tool. Re-run the chamfer finish process with new tool and hit feed hold midway. Reset and stop the machine. Zero out the Z register. Manually move the tool toward the part in Z until the tool touches the chamfer. Record the Z value you moved and either subtract it from the Z tool geometry or just put the negative Z value in the wear column.

Re-run the same finish pass on the chamfer to confirm the tool now just skims the surface as it should.

If I was making this part, I would have just used a full radius Top Notch insert to rough and finish turn the OD.

Philabuster said:

Touching off the tool in Z is a bit tricky for these types of tools. You cannot just use 1/2 of the insert width. Go ahead and probe the side of the toolholder for Z. This will be used to get you started.

Easiest method is to finish turn a 45° chamfer on the front of a piece of stock using a CNMG tool already probed. Then switch the program to use the new tool. Re-run the chamfer finish process with new tool and hit feed hold midway. Reset and stop the machine. Zero out the Z register. Manually move the tool toward the part in Z until the tool touches the chamfer. Record the Z value you moved and either subtract it from the Z tool geometry or just put the negative Z value in the wear column.

Re-run the same finish pass on the chamfer to confirm the tool now just skims the surface as it should.

Click to expand...

Awesome. I was wondering about how to set these tools. I was thinking I would need to do it iteratively.

How do I set my threading tools on z? I was just going to eye ball it to a sharp edge somewhere. My tool eye is non-operational, for what it is worth.

Philabuster said:

If I was making this part, I would have just used a full radius Top Notch insert to rough and finish turn the OD.

Click to expand...

I am so green to CNC turning that I only have an inkling of what that is. My understanding is that they are a family of grooving inserts. Do they all run in the same tool holder?

My big issue is that the only OD turning stations I have are BT25. I have a parting tool. An external thread tool. And a turning tool. And one free station. But I am not having much luck finding useful grooving BT25 tool holders on eBay. And as far as I can tell BT25 is obsolete.

The lathe did come with a Capto C4 to 1.5" shank adapter. Would something like (link below) take any top notch insert and give me flexibility?

SANDVIK CAPTO C4-TLER-27-3 TOP NOTCH GROOVE TOOL

THANKS THANKS THANKS!

-Jim

kb0thn said:

The lathe did come with a Capto C4 to 1.5" shank adapter. Would something like (link below) take any top notch insert and give me flexibility?

SANDVIK CAPTO C4-TLER-275-3 TOP NOTCH GROOVE TOOL

Click to expand...

"Top Notch" tools are a Kennametal designation. There is an equivalent insert in Sandvik, but it uses a different top clamp and corresponding groove on the insert. You can also just swap out the Sandvik top clamp and use a Kennametal top clamp in that holder to enable that holder to take Kennametal inserts.

There are multiple sizes in the Top Notch insert family. The #3 size is by far the most common, which is the correct size for that holder.

BT25 is obsolete for sure, but I have a small hoard of the tool holders. PM me with your address and we can work something out.

Is that seriously a turret that won't just simply accept stick tools?

WTF was Mazak thinking?

Also, big fan of pushing down (left handers), I wasn't until I watched a machine
try to rip itself apart on a nasty interrupted cut.

Bobw said:

Is that seriously a turret that won't just simply accept stick tools?

WTF was Mazak thinking?

Click to expand...

They call it the factory automation turret. It's 16 positions. But with the ID turning holders, you really can't get anywhere near 16 tools into the thing.

I have a parts QT15 that has the 12 position holder. It takes stick tooling with some bolts built into the turret.

I spent a long time trying to figure out how to get mine to take stick tooling. I thought I was an idiot for not being able to do something that seems so obvious. Finally found the drawings for my turret in the operating manual and discovered that they have stick tool holders. But no amount of searching would find one. Found a company in the UK that has aftermarket holders in their old catalogs. But they quit making them 10 years ago. So after 5 hours of banging my head against the wall, I did what I should have in the first place ... designed one and machined it. An hour to design, a chunk of 1018, 45 minutes minutes on the mill, done.

Philabuster said:

"Top Notch" tools are a Kennametal designation. There is an equivalent insert in Sandvik, but it uses a different top clamp and corresponding groove on the insert. You can also just swap out the Sandvik top clamp and use a Kennametal top clamp in that holder to enable that holder to take Kennametal inserts.

There are multiple sizes in the Top Notch insert family. The #3 size is by far the most common, which is the correct size for that holder.

BT25 is obsolete for sure, but I have a small hoard of the tool holders. PM me with your address and we can work something out.

Click to expand...

There are also left and right inserts and tools to go with them. Inserts must match the holder.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/kennametal-topnotch-insert-question-334632/