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mazak integrex vs doosan puma mx

kennyayr

Plastic
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Location
scotland
hi all, our company is looking at buying one of these machines,does anyone no wats best. our most common parts are 4140 steel and 17/4 stainless
 
Both machines will do a fine job. Both machines are also complex enough that support is a key requirement if you buy one. If I ever buy another, you can be darned sure it will include a spindle performance uptime guarantee of some sort. When your machine doesn't work, the last thing you want to hear after waiting 27 days already is that that their service department can't even tell you for sure when they can schedule a tech in your facility....
 
stu has it on the nose
both mfg. are first class machine builders
look who covers your option needs along with the best(biggest) local support staff
 
Now that must be a comment from a guy who has never had to wait for Mazak USA to get back with them for an answer on a maintenance issue.

Mazak support in some areas is great. In ours it sucks! I really wonder how many other people sit for 30 days waiting for Mazak to try to figure out an issue...

Mazak makes great machines, but I'm sure happy not to have to worry about when a tech can get back to me with an answer to a simple question anymore.

If you happen to live near a Mazak Tech center, and can get hold of a real Mazak service tech your luck might be better. I'm fairly convinced that Mazak techs in our area are only there to serve Boeing. The rest of their customers get the support if they can find the time.

Like I said, unless you're independently wealthy and don't need your machines to run to justify themselves, I'd negotiate a spindle performance uptime guarantee before buying one. If you can afford to let a machine sit waiting for maintenance almost 20% of the time, have at it.

Our Integrex was down 67 days waiting for techs in the first year. When it was still under warranty no less....
 
Support

Machine tool support does vary a lot depending on geographic regions. I had worked at the Mazak Northeast Tech Center for 2 weeks shy of 7 years in Applications and my objective opinion was this office did an EXCELLENT JOB with prompt and effective customer support. Being in machine tools in New England for the last 30 years, I know of a time when Mazak Northeast had a horrible reputation for both customer support, and as a good place to work. That got fixed at the time Bill Citron became GM of the office, around 2000 or so? Bill turned the office around and got a real customer driven vibe into everybody that worked there. Indeed, he even fired a guy that lied to a customer, passing off a used machine as new! Bill moved on in 2006 to become President of Mazak Laser Division in Chicago. My toast to Bill at his going away party was; "Bill, you're one of the only guys I know in your position that wasn't a complete flaming f"**king a**hole." This really endeared me to the other Mazak management attending the party.

The Integrex is an absolute beast when it comes to calibration of the coordinate system, alignments and especially correcting for the mechanical error of the B axis turret pivot point! This is not a criticism in the least, it's the nature of the beast with Integrex type machines.

The big advantage Mazak has is that they got into the Integrex style game in the mid to late 80's, and are currently on their 6th or 7th generation of Integrex, where each new version gets a lot of CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT learned from the previous models.

It takes a lot of time and experience to deal with Integrexes, and Mazak's CORPORATE MEMORY AND CAPACITY has been at the Integrexes for DECADES so they are well versed on "the nature of the beast".

Doosan is a great builder and I've worked on a lot of them in a customer support role. They are good at what they do, but simply do not have the decades of corporate memory developed in dealing with Integrex types for DECADES!

If I was buying a big ticket machine tool, the first thing I would request of all the builders under consideration is a local USERS LIST. The longer they take to produce it, means the more time they had to spend culling the good testimonial users from the disgruntled and disappointed users. I'm pretty sure Mazak Northeast would be able to produce a good users list of happy Integrex customers quicker than any other builders!

-jim

PS - Mazak USA website lists openings for THREE Field Service Techs for the northeast office. So, Northeast customer support may not be as good now as I remember from my time there? Back in late 2008 and early 2009, Mazak aggressively cut staff with layoffs and early retirements and termination incentives. I got caught in this, but I'm lazy and subversive, so I deserved to loose my job. They could not predict the future, but in hindsight it looks like they cut excessively and now have to build things back up to early 2008 levels.
 
I would at any time grab a Mazak Integrex, i work with a MX2500 ST 2008, FANUC 18I-tb, its a very time consuming procedure to program it and its not a Mazak.
The Mazak gets quicker from zero to cutting chips, its a matter of minutes vs maybe 30 + minutes on the Fanuc control.
 








 
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