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Mazak QT-6 with SMW Bar Feeder

Chrisw1227

Plastic
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Location
St. Louis MO
Ok I read a couple dozen posts and i see people with similar problems but I everyone was emailing info outside of here so I can not get the info of the forum I need. So here is my problem
I acquired the Mazak and SMW Bar feeder used and it came with no info. I tried calling SMW which is now owned by ATS and I was told tough luck that they don't support the machine anymore. My local Mazak distributor has someone who can help but he just had knee surgery and is out for a little bit. When he gets back I can get help but I don't know how long it will be.
My problem is the programming of the barfeeder in Mazatrol. I am very familiar with Mazatrol but I never used a bar feeder. I can get it to push the bar and open the chuck and push it to the stopper but I can not get it to close the chuck or stop pushing or whatever it needs to do to continue the machine just sits in cycle mode and does nothing.
I used the M68 to push it and that works but am I missing a code from the Barfeeder to tell the machine it is done? I also am not sure I have the reload program right either and not sure I have the EOB part correct. If anyone has an example of how to do this in Mazatrol let me know, I can not use EIA I do not believe this machine came with that option but I will check and I can use EIA if absolutely necessary.
Thanks!
 
What model of SMW bar feed?

On edit: if it's a 12.65 here's some help

boat001.jpg
 
It is a Spacesaver 12.69 and I ended up with a manual for the 2000-2001 model and I have a similar page but Im getting it to push the bar but not stop and close the chuck. I am not sure why, is it the way i have it programmed or something? When I do it in Mazatrol is there a specific way it needs to be in? I know sometimes it gets tempermental about being programmed a specific way.
 
It’s been many years, but as I remember the M68 causes the pusher to push the material and will keep pushing until the lathe closes the chuck. Do you have a M07 after the M68? Or is it hung up on the M68 waiting a M-code conformation?

On the 12.65 it issues the M-code confirmation when the M68 is received. On the 2001 I used to have it waited until the pusher stopped moving to issue the M-code confirmation.
M-code confirmation was output 12 on the PLC on the 12.65. This required a dwell sometimes on the 12.65 after the M68 before moving the turret to feed the bar, otherwise the turret would move before the pusher reached the bar and slam it into the stop on the turret.
 
Yea it isnt processing pass the M68 line. It stays in cycle mode but just sits and never stops pushing, like its waiting on a signal from something.
 
Can you confirm output 12 on the PLC in the bar feeder is acknowledging the M68?

If not you may need to reset the PLC and reload the firmware. The firmware is on an eprom, but the plc loads the firmware once and will not reload it unless reset.

If so then you will need to trace the M-code confirm circuit back to your lathe. What type of control and what kind of interface on the lathe? (how many pins on the plug?)
 
Those bar feeders are good one, or at least they used be....and I know nothing about any mazak

I'm NOT the Gary in those fax copies... but from long ago memory
AFTER the Turret is in position so the stop in the turret is the target for the bar, you open the chuck, i've long ago forgoten the code, but then the pusher starts moving the bar forward, and hits the stop, then the pressure builds in the pusher and a pressure switch is actuated and the that closes the chuck... Then the cycle start starts ,,, move away ... index to tool ...cut some metal... index to another tool...cut some metal.... index to CUT OFF Tool... cut it off.... Index to STOP... POSITION the stop... OPEN the Chuck... you know what happens next...

Good luck... Ohh... and you did install it correctly right??
 
Im hoping its installed correctly! We followed the directions from SMW about the install on their end but not sure about anything else. It was a match set running before for someone else so we didnt fit this up ourselves
I tried using that program layout and here is my results
M69
I bring my stopper down
m6 to open chuck
m68 to push
stopper backs up
chuck close

It will get to the M68 and move the bar but the stopper never backs up. If I change the program so the M68 is on the line with the Stopper movement in Mazatrol you can add a M code to a manual movement, then it moves but never closes the chuck so Im thinking its something when the bar hits the part the pressure isnt tripping the signal switch. Ill look and see what I can find on that. It always gets to that. If I take the M68 out it runs fine just doesnt advance the bar at all!
 
Does the hydraulics push the bar aginst the stop? It should
When the bar gets to the stop, the hydraulic pressure should increase and a pressure switch changes state and that sends the next signal which should be CLOSE Chuck...
 
Just talked to someone that used to set these machines up and we traced it back, when the bar pushes it never sends a finished signal back to the PLC so the barfeeder never acknowledges that it is finished. Any tips?
 
Just talked to someone that used to set these machines up and we traced it back, when the bar pushes it never sends a finished signal back to the PLC so the barfeeder never acknowledges that it is finished. Any tips?

This is most likely a PRESSURE SWITCH.... it's not closing on rising pressure and sending the signal to the machine and signaling OK, we did that, now what??? ... And if the pressure is not rising, maybe the pump is bad...

Why rising pressure?... because as the feed pressure pushing the pusher is moving the pressure is relativly low... when the bar it;s pushing hits the stop, it keeps pushing but since the pump is now trying to "push" oil into a non expanding cylinder, the pressure rises... and trips the switch.... My guess has been all along the switch is either out of adjustment, or farked up and needs to be replaced...

Geeeze... now they use a PLC?... is that cheaper and easier to understand than a few relays?... is it better?? so far I'd have to say no.
 
I totally agree Gary, Even the guy that I was talking to and the people from ATS who now owns SMW said that this machine is too old it gets no support and there are no spare parts so unless I find another junk one with usable parts im hosed! Im going to see if my maintenance guy can check the pressure switch which is what I am thinking but the only thing that I am confused about is that it goes and initializes when I put it in auto mode so that tells me that it does detect the bar when it goes threw that initialization.... I dont know, we never ran a bar feeder on anything before so this is all new to me!
JBurgess I believe its pneumatic i dont have anywhere to put fluid in it just a little grease on the slide
 
I am assuming your bar feeder looks like this:

smw001.jpg


Since this a pneumatic and not a hydraulic bar feeder there is no pressure switch to confirm the pusher. It just pushed until it gets a chuck closed signal. Unless you have a very late firmware release it sends the m-code confirm when it receives the M68 command. There is a pressure switch on the incoming air, but it only gives an alarm for low air pressure.

Inside the bar feeder under the material tray there should be a Telemecanique PLC model TSX172-4012.

The M-code confirm is output 12 on this PLC. It gets it’s power from terminal 13 on the plc and that should be getting 24V from your lathe. If not the PLC cannot send the m-code confirm to your lathe.

If you have the 24 volts on terminal 13 then terminal 12 on the PLC should go positive for a short period of time when the feeder receives the M68 command. Terminal 12 on the PLC becomes terminal 19 on the big connector on the back of the bar feeder. I find it easier to see this with a analog voltmeter.

The 12.65 bareeders I had were notorious for the logic becoming corrupted requiring the firmware to be reloaded. SMW never resolved that issue.
 
Thats exactly my problem, terminal 12 never lights up, ill have to check the incoming voltage signal monday. That is pretty similar to what the guy I talked to told me.
Thanks
 
I don't know if its this simple

Make sure the bar feeder mode is highlighted. Its either under the machine or option button. You can not operate the chuck manually if the bar feeder is on(highlighted). It needs to be highlighted after every power down.
 
That got figured out in the begining, thats not the problem otherwise it wouldnt respond at all, its pushing the bar but its never stopping and closing the chuck after it pushes
 








 
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