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  1. #1
    SND
    SND is offline Diamond
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    Default QT-20 Mazatrol T-plus control

    What can you guys tell me about the Mazatrol T-plus control that would be on a QT-20 from 1998. I'm trying to figure out the progression from the mazak control but I'm not sure which came before what and which is better. So how was the T-plus, does it have the conversational that I keep hearing mazatrol is so good for, or did that come later on the 640?

    Any other thoughts on the QT-20's from around 1998, anything I should watch out for, known troubles? and what may be reasonable prices these days if its in fairly decent shape for its age?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Captdave's Avatar
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    The Mazak (Mazatrol) conversational has been around since the T2 control and then came the T3, T32, T plus then Fusion 640. As far as current market value I wouldn't have a clue but there are a lot QT owners on this board that could help with that.

  3. #3
    rwmr09 is offline Plastic
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    I have serviced alot of these machines and would have many in my shop if I were maching. They are a vary reliable machine and if general maint. is done will last longer than some of us will. I have customers ask me alot to keep a eye out for machines like this. As far as value of the machine, its all up to the highest bidder. I have just sold one to a customer for about $15,000 plus rigging and instalation fees this was a QT18 with tail stock and have also seen them go for $32,000 with sub spindles. Do some shoping before you buy one and know what you need so your not buying 2 machines to do the work of one. Spend a little more now to save you alot latter. Also try to stay away from machines that ran alot of cast iron they always seem to be the ones I am working on unless they are maintained.

  4. #4
    SND
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    Thanks, I'd definitely rather have a machine that ran mostly stainless, than something that ran cast anything, or brass. The control tends to worry me, I think of plain computers 12yrs ago.

    I'm also seeing in my searching that in 1998, there's QT's with T-plus, and also QT250's, with the 640 control, same year. Looks like thats when they started coming in with the newer model. Besides control, any main machine differences between a QT-20, and a QT-250? the 250 seems to be a bit taller, some stuff surely changed a bit?

    Thanks

  5. #5
    wippin' boy is offline Diamond
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    i've got a qt20 with t-plus
    no problems at all,great little machine
    i think the 250's are along the MS line meaning 3 and 4 axis live tooling stuff
    bigger and more of a slant setup, that little 20 is a flat bed

  6. #6
    SND
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    Ahh flat bed surely explains the lower profile of the machine. How good is the conversational side of the T-plus? were there lots of improvements on the 640? It would be the first cnc I learn, so easier and the more newbie proof the better

    Right now I got 2 things on my list, a 1998 qt-20, and a new 2010 Doosan Lynx220. I can afford either one, but I'm not sure which is best value over all for the dollar. Maybe something else will make the list soon while shopping.
    Doosan sure seems to offer a lot in a new machine for the price. But I always heard mazaks were easy enough and quick to program vs. fanuc and they're heavier, more known in my area, but I heard the mazak service was pretty bad around here, like in most places. Of course as long as I have access to parts, I'd have no real fear to dig in and rip her all apart if need be.

    does mazak have some crazy fees now to get access to parts and ordering if you bought a used machine instead of new? a few grand to be on the list or some scheme?
    might it be even worse if a machine from the US is brought into Canada or should I still expect to find what I need?

  7. #7
    Inspired is offline Plastic
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    Default Mazatrol rocks for turning :)

    The T-Plus control would be fine. I have programmed thousands of diffferent parts on Mazak lathes, as old as 1992 QT-15N with T-32 control, and as new as Nexus 250 with Matrix control, with qty's ranging from 1 part to 30K+ parts.

    The conversational programming is easy to pick up and fantastic in a job shop environment, and also high volume production. I bought a used 15N from the US a few years ago and have had excellent tech support via telephone with Mazak Canada. Like you, I'm not afraid to dive in to do repairs and maintenance and Mazak has been very helpful! They do stock some parts in Ontario, and they stock almost everything else in Kentucky. There is no fee to get registered with them as an owner of a used Mazak.

    Also, if you can't physically travel to see the used machine you're looking, I would highly recommend paying a tech that is local to the machine to do a complete inspection on your behalf. It is common for used machines to need some TLC once they arrive on your floor, but it's nice to know what you're getting into.

    Oh yeah, you might want to get a quote on the new Mazak Smart lathe. I saw 1 up close a few months ago at an open house. They had an identically configured Nexus machine setup right beside the Smart lathe running the same part, same tooling, same setup, same program. It was about a 2.5 minute cycle with tailstock usage etc. IIRC the Smart lathe was about 12 seconds faster then the Nexus lathe! The surprised technician that had setup both machines attributed that time savings to a "leaner" and more efficient control, and faster processing in the Smart machine.

  8. #8
    cnctoolcat's Avatar
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    A 1998 QT20 with T-plus control is a fantastic cnc lathe. The T-plus has full conversational capability. Mazatrol is incredibly easy to learn, and is awesome for 2-axis turning.

    The QT20 is mechanically identical to the earlier QT15. The 20 has different sheet metal. Mazak sold tens of thousands of these lathes from their introduction in 1987 to the start of Nexus lathe production around 2000.

    You can make better parts with Mazatrol: perfect chamfers and radius's, automatic tool nose compensation, blazing-fast editing right at the machine.

    Some of the early 640 machines had problems with the new-for-Mazatrol hard drives. Versus a T-plus, a 640 control has more memory (hard-drive), and lcd monitor.

    I have a 1998 Daewoo (Doosan) Lynx 200, and it has been an excellent machine. In order to match your programming speed versus a Mazak, you will need a full-blown CAM system to program the Doosan's standard Fanuc G-code control.

    Mazatrol still is waaaay better for at-the-machine editing and program tweaking.

    Greg

  9. #9
    SND
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    thanks Greg, sounds like it could be a fun machine then. I'm looking at many options/models and different ages. Waiting to hear on a 2000 that looks the way I'd keep a new machine, spotless... Howmany more years would you expect a 1998 to still have parts and some service? do they go up to 20 or so?

    Regarding the Lynx, since I never programmed anything and only know what I read here about controls. I'm guessing the Fanuc, even a 2010 OiTC would likely still not be that much easier to program than an older one, still the same set up pretty much ?
    I definitely would rather avoid putting lots of $ into cad/cam which I'd have to learn from scratch also. I'll definitely check the Mazak Smart, today actually, but it'll likely be a bit more then I'd like to spend.

  10. #10
    cnctoolcat's Avatar
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    Howmany more years would you expect a 1998 to still have parts and some service? do they go up to 20 or so?
    A '98 QT20 will be a money maker for a looong time.

    I have 2 '88 QT15's with Mazatrol T2 control. Tool eyes. Awesome machines. These machines just work, and spit out great parts.

    Mazak and Mitsubishi offer parts and support for anything you're ever gonna need on any QT.

    Everything on a QT15/QT20 is replaceable. Linear guides. Spindles. Ballscrews. Motors. Drives. The QT's can be made to run forever.

    I expect my 2 QT15's to proly run 30 years before replacing anything. Barring any crash damage....

    For your first cnc lathe, a QT is an excellent choice.

    Greg

  11. #11
    SND
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    The qt-20 ended up selling right away pretty much, but there's a slightly cleaner qt-30 same age and all, but new is looking kinda tempting too I'll know more later next week when the #'s come in.

  12. #12
    Justin_Terry is offline Cast Iron
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    The only QT that i have seen a major problem with is the long bed QT-300. something about that machine small chips get trapped between the z-axis cover and the linear guide truck and tears up the wiper eventually letting the ball bearings come out of the guide. It happens on other machines but that model for me has had more problems with that than others

    Justin

  13. #13
    Captdave's Avatar
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    I purchase a 94 QT8 T32 a couple of years ago and have had nothing but great success with it. Programming is pretty easy and straight forward even for a newbie like myself. With the help of the folks on this forum I have been able to work thru all of my programming, maintenance and repair issues without outside support.

    Good luck on your search and again thanks to all the great folks to this site!

  14. #14
    mcbassin's Avatar
    mcbassin is offline Aluminum
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    We have a QT-20 that is a 1997 model with the t-plus. The biggest complaint is lack of memory. lost communication with our backup laptop and can't retrieve hundreds of programs we saved over the years. Spent around 3k trying to get it fixed finally gave up. controller is pretty much bullet proof though. good luck with it.

  15. #15
    Laurentian's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Input needed please

    We have located a couple of 90's vintage QT-8's and should be
    deciding which one soon. Two of them have T32 and the other two T+
    Are the advantages of the newer T+ over a T-32 great enough to be
    a deal breaker ? I would like to DNC from our CAD at one
    point even if the simple parts we need to run presently can
    be done through conversational. Input needed please !

    And thanks

  16. #16
    wippin' boy is offline Diamond
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    the mechanics are more important than the control vintage

  17. #17
    mthomure is offline Cast Iron
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    Laurentian, I have programmed on a T2 and a 640. The 640 had a few new features but seemed very similar to the old T2. The T32 and T-plus should be really similar in programming. Just my .02. I kinda like the oldT2 myself, I just purchased another QT8 with a T2 control.
    Michael

  18. #18
    Laurentian's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Good info !

    Quote Originally Posted by mthomure View Post
    Laurentian, I have programmed on a T2 and a 640. The 640 had a few new features but seemed very similar to the old T2. The T32 and T-plus should be really similar in programming. Just my .02. I kinda like the oldT2 myself, I just purchased another QT8 with a T2 control.
    Michael
    Thanks, good info. Are you the guy that bought the QT-8 in GA ?
    Nice machine, low hours ( fresh paint ) Let us know how it is when
    you get it please.

    Reason for my poking around and being somewhat indecisive is
    I want to get the right machine / control. I am 100% decided on a
    QT-8 just usure about what to expect with controls. Criteria :
    Parts availability, ease of use and drip feed G code from DNC PC
    through RS-232. Any and all info welcome and THANKS !

  19. #19
    Captdave's Avatar
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    What another QT8 in GA?? There goes the neighborhood!

  20. #20
    mthomure is offline Cast Iron
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    Mine is coming out of Minnesota. I don't want to compete with Captdave. I am having trouble locating the source of a problem on my other QT8 and found this one for $6500.00. The previous owner bought it and decided he didn't want to learn Mazatrol. I bought it through Advantage Products. John Dexter is the salesman that I have dealt with in the past and is a great guy to deal with.
    Michael

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