Two months on Mazatrol

1995 AJV 32/605. What a waste of time. Maybe I'm too old (50), maybe I just don't get it, but it just doesn't seem practical with the learning curve being what it is. Information overload, operator learning and workload too great, a never ending uphill battle and huge amounts of machine downtime trying to figure things out.

Have you had any training? Or are you just having a go at it?

Can you use basic G code at all?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

People who are familiar with G-code programming have a difficult time adjusting to Mazatrol. The main reason is that in G-code programming, you are defining the tool path, whereas in Mazatrol you are defining part shape and the control figures out the tool path. It requires a different mind set.

People who are familiar with G-code programming have a difficult time adjusting to Mazatrol. The main reason is that in G-code programming, you are defining the tool path, whereas in Mazatrol you are defining part shape and the control figures out the tool path. It requires a different mind set.

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I'll second that. Ive tried and tried to figure out that maztrol. Finaly i just said screw it. To bad though. Mazak must be desperate for technicians. Last week before I came out here to fort worth someone from there HR found my resume on monster. When he called I told him I couldnt stand Mazak but he insisted on talking to me. he told me they would give me 6 weeks of training, re-locate me to VA.,and pay 85K a year plus travel and per diem. sounded great but I told him again " I dont like mazatrol". He told me to think it over and give him a call back but I dont think so.

Well then Mad had better suck it up and deal with his situatoin over there.
If Mazak can't git good help for 85K, Mad don't stand a chance!






Either way - I am surprised that they don't leave a back door into G code. Sure would seem to be easier to sell with both. ???


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Joe788 said:

Have you had any training? Or are you just having a go at it?

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Training with a guy one year younger. He has a ton of experience on this machine and others like it such as the VQC.

About all I accomplished was point machining and line machining. Mill ends, D&T, some circle milling and adding bolt circles, that kind of stuff. But then it gets harder and there's a lot of issues that come into play. Like him wanting me to almost always program X-Y zero WPCs in the back LH corner. Not all the drawings are like that. Hey, I've been doing this kind of work since 1976 but I'm not quite ready to blend angles into radii while the print is upside down and backwards.

Mazaktrol

Hello,

Yea, good luck with programming a mill with Mazatrol. The real cost is the down time and the inabilty to deal with solid models. But you might be doing real simple stuff, you did not do a lot of describing your work.
Your time would be much better spent learning a c.a.m. system. I program my Mazak lathes with E.I.A., on a lathe it seems like you are always tunning things up at the machine but I would not even think about that on a mill, we use Esprit from D.P. Technologies.
I am learning Mazatrol myself, we have a MSY machine and the Mazatrol can really save you time with all of the canned cycles, most people love it for that.
Mills, no way, I want to be sitting on my ass in the a.c. watching Esprit put tool paths on a solid model spitting out code for programs that pass first article eazily 90% or better the first time!
Wish I had better news for you!

Have a nice day!

Landm1

Sorry landm1 I should describe the work. Parts for folder/gluers (packaging machines) piecework and short run. Very short run, 6 pieces is a lot. A lot of 1018 square & flat, large 3/4" aluminum frame plates with a fair amount of detail, long flat bars that need 2 & 3 ops in 3 vices, some table and shaft work too.

To hell with it, this is a tremendous amount of liabilites on parts with 20 or 30 features, plenty of chances to get it wrong. What's the advantage to re-programming the same jobs over and over? Why not just run proven programs with setup sheets? Is it a good idea to rethink it all over again and risk screwing it up?

To me it would seem more logical to have someone on cad/cam programing EIA while a part jockey is making chips. " When the spindle's not turning your not earning". Programing at the control is "DEAD TIME" and as stated above, What do you do when the customer gives you a solid model? I dont know much about mazaks but I dont think they have a solid import feature.

And this machine, geez the graphics are the equivalent of 1976 video pong, what a friggin joke. Meanwhile we have g-code machines that are running the same programs from 1991 which work fine. And I'm always fine tuning and updating the setup sheets to optimize the setups with regards to cutting tools and workholding.

I have enough to worry about trying to get a 6" insert carbide slitting saw to run down an 86" piece of 1x3 crms centrered on the 1" width within .002" with a 125"/127" width and 1.250" depth held to +.005" the whole length.

Now I was supposed to be responsible for programming counterbored slots, reamed holes, d&t, b/c's, milled lengths and shoulder depths on a part that was designed and already programmed in the early 90s. How stupid is that? Maybe these machines are made for "look at me" hot dog showoffs that can whip stuff out without a single part feature flaw. So let's make the biplane stunt pilot fly the 747 and hope for the best? Nuh-uh sorry. Oh yeah, rant over for now.

A place I worked at prior to 1995 programmed thier Mazak mills offline in G-code so I would think it was possible to do it at the machine. We were not cutting a cutting edge kind of shop either (form, fit, and function). Lead man was always calling me over to ask what the machine was going to do next , as he couldn't read the code. Good luck.
Michael

Mazatrol milling is a handful more than turning. But, for a short run job shop, it can be the cat's meow, once you learn it.

Get the programming manual out. If you don't have one, call Mazak and get one. It has lots of good examples you can go by.

Good luck,
Greg

I really do like mazatrol both lathe and mill.

its so much easyer and faster to mill a contour and odd shaped pockets then even on the acramatic 2100 controll.
every time i am back on the a2100 i need to check if my tapping coordinates are the same where i bored the holes.

cnctoolcat said:

Mazatrol milling is a handful more than turning. But, for a short run job shop, it can be the cat's meow, once you learn it.

Get the programming manual out. If you don't have one, call Mazak and get one. It has lots of good examples you can go by.

Good luck,
Greg

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Thanks a bunch Greg, that's what I did. I dug the both the programming manual and the operating manual out of a cabinet. It is extremely helpful since this control uses a lot of abbrevations.

A lot of things just wern't explained to me, like how the program is structured. For example I pull up "Point machining: tapping" and it gives me the three tools I need. That was never explained to me. Then I was told for "X-Y stock removal" always put ".1" well I did that on a 2" mill and it bit the edge of the workpiece and knocked it out of the jaws.

I think what I'm dealing with is the old "my sandbox I don't wanna share" not-so-hidden agenda. A lot of us have seen this. Me, I take pride in my training of people and glow on seeing them do well on their own. I think I got just the opposite but I don't care anymore. It's over.

Mazatrolling

The closet thing on earth to a mazatrol tutorial is the MAZATROL PROGRAMMING CLASSBOOK. (available in PDF, like all MAZAK books) This consists of nothing more than up to 25 year old part sketches (incorrect to call them "blueprints") and print out's of the mazatrol program. (the sketches ahve been in use since the early 80's! The program print outs are updated as they went from M1 to M2 to M32 to M+ to Fusion to Matrix) As you look back and forth between the sketch and the program print out, you can glean how mazatrol is thinking.

If you must be entirely self taught.

The best way, in my opinion, is to have an accomplished mazatroller spend some on site face time going through the mazatrol do's and don'ts. Like any computer app, there's a lot of "technique" in mazatrol that easy if you know it and impossible if you dont.

I used to work in APPS at Mazak, until the great layoffs there of early 2009. I spent a lot of my time there training, and "everybody gets it sooner or later".

I am an enthusiastic fan of mazatrol, especially for 2 axis lathe work. But Mazatrol is PLANER and can only machine 2-1/2 axis work on any mazak machine.

If you search my name here, and "jimiscnc" over at ******* and even integrexmachiniist, I have repeatedly tried to get new mazatrollers up to speed via internet message board. If you can search some of my stuff up, I hope it would help you.

Mazak lusting after a tech with 85 grand? Wow. I tried to get my old job back, after the opening was posted on their website, and after sending out my resume and cover, have not even received even the courtesy of a response. I think it's time to send them another application! (Not really my old job - that went unfilled. It is actually an opening to replace another guy in my dept that quit Mazak a year after I was laid off.)

-jim

upside down and backwards?

just re-read this thread. Mazatrol will eat upside down and backwards for breakfast!

Mazatrol has the WPC Unit. It is supposed to be either the second or third unit in a mazatrol milling program. this is an acronym for "work piece coordinate" and is directly analogous to the "G54-G54.1P256" EIA fixture offsets, with one profound piece of additional capability: The entire mazatrol program can be turned about Program Zero by 0 to 359.999 degrees!

The WPC is within the program, it is not external registers like G54----, so you can program a WPC unit over and over and over if you need. Also, you can point the WPC to the external EIA G54 registers, or they even have 6 EXTERNAL WPC registers that can be used when you have a WPC that is the same as required for many program - like the X-Y offset on a stationary chuck with the axis vertical to the table.

The DISPLAY MAP softkey/page is INVALUABLE to navigating mazatrol for non-mazakers. It is a shortcut roadmap to most everything a user would need. (It is not a map of everything - navigating "everything" is used mostly by factory and service techs)


-jim

It took me a while to re-learn Mazatrol after 15 years away, but for straightforward parts it is very fast to program and set up. The tool management by tool description saves a bunch of time over dealing with tool numbers. The probe also saves a lot of time locating work coordinates. The WPCs are much more efficient than G54... as was said earlier because they remain in the program.

I finally got my PFH networked this weekend with the help of my brother. Wow, what a time saver. No more RS232 for my on the PFH anyway.

Without the programming manual I would have never figured it out though.

Hey Techguy, what brand/model of ethernet card did you end up using? I really like the way RS232 works, but someday my RS232 computer is going to die, and I'd rather just network it than trying to setup another computer with an old school comm port. I'm spoiled by the Matrix control. Just plug in the network cable and it's done!

The WPCs are much more efficient than G54... as was said earlier because they remain in the program.

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Would you please expand on this statement? Are you in reference to a lathe or mill here?

In a lathe - I can see (and use) the fixture offsets directly in my progs. No worries about not getting everything all set up the next time - as well it is quicker.

But if your talking about a mill - I don't understand just how you can have your offsets in the prog. Unless you have dedicated fixturing, your setup could be over here, or over there, or ... a little bit from the last time eh?

And either way - on a Fanuc you can write to the G54's and such in the program if you want to as well via G10.

I have never ran a Mazak, but I fear the day is getting closer and closer to when I may hafta break down and buy one. That will be a very hard sell tho if I can't find a machine that I want with a Fanuc on it tho. ESPECIALLY as you say that this control is really good for basic parts. Not much "basic" goes through here...


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox