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What's a QT10N worth?
- Thread starter SMT
- Start date
- Replies 8
- Views 1,821
hitandmiss
Titanium
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2010
- Location
- Rochester, NY USA
If it really is running right and hasn't been abused, it will do much better than "It won't hold .001"
I have one customer that has 4 QT-8's and a QT-10 that run 24-5+ and hold dimensions very well.
The QT-20 is well worn, but is still a real work horse.
And there are a couple of mills with the M-2 control to add to the mix of over 35 CNC's.
They have very few problems with them outside of fans and batteries.
"(what's CAM mean anyhow?)"
These are the second generation of Mazatrol and Mazak used the CAM buzz word to mean Computer Aided Manufacturing. The Mazatrol is a rapid (at the control) programming method in a conversational format where the power of the computer was put right at the operator's fingertips. Bypassing the clunky means (early to mid '80's) of preparing machine programs by a "programmer" and having to devote shop floor time to prove it out tieing up 2 people. There were many one man shops started by skilled people and a Mazak lathe or mill that were able to be very competetive in short run jobs. Some stayed small and others grew to employ 50-100 employees.
There are many of these that have not had mutch use, or were well cared for, and are appearing on the used market for very attractive prices. With the inital cost less than 3X scrap, it shouldn,t be the end of the world if it is a problem machine. If you get one and have room, get a second one with the same control. This will allow you to swap parts around as you learn to trouble shoot them. It beats having a several $K/ month machine payments as you are trying to get started.
Bill
Bill
I have one customer that has 4 QT-8's and a QT-10 that run 24-5+ and hold dimensions very well.
The QT-20 is well worn, but is still a real work horse.
And there are a couple of mills with the M-2 control to add to the mix of over 35 CNC's.
They have very few problems with them outside of fans and batteries.
"(what's CAM mean anyhow?)"
These are the second generation of Mazatrol and Mazak used the CAM buzz word to mean Computer Aided Manufacturing. The Mazatrol is a rapid (at the control) programming method in a conversational format where the power of the computer was put right at the operator's fingertips. Bypassing the clunky means (early to mid '80's) of preparing machine programs by a "programmer" and having to devote shop floor time to prove it out tieing up 2 people. There were many one man shops started by skilled people and a Mazak lathe or mill that were able to be very competetive in short run jobs. Some stayed small and others grew to employ 50-100 employees.
There are many of these that have not had mutch use, or were well cared for, and are appearing on the used market for very attractive prices. With the inital cost less than 3X scrap, it shouldn,t be the end of the world if it is a problem machine. If you get one and have room, get a second one with the same control. This will allow you to swap parts around as you learn to trouble shoot them. It beats having a several $K/ month machine payments as you are trying to get started.
Bill
Bill
Well, I know the guy that owns the machine and I emailed him. He said it's getting tired and he ordered a new QTS250. I asked if tired meant it won't hold size, or it breaks a lot. He said it won't hold size and they don't run it enough for it to break. I mentioned that i was in the market but i needed something that would hold better than .001 and he said he didn't think it would hold that.
If that's actually the case, is there a way to "bring it back?"
I have room for it (3 other mazaks here, room for probably 5 more) but I really don't want to get into "parts machines"
cnctoolcat
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2006
- Location
- Abingdon, VA
It sounds to me like the current owner might not know what the hell he is doing.
If the machine won't hold .001", then it could only be a few, fairly simple and fixable, things:
1.) A worn X-axis ballscrew, which is very rare, and primarily caused by running a machine for a long time with the lube sytem malfunctioning.
2.) Worn, or mis-adjusted, thrust bearings in the X-axis. (The most likely cause here...)
3.) Worn, or mis-adjusted, cogged X-axis drive belt.
4.) Mis-adjusted X-axis gibs. (These are box-way machines.)
5.) The X-axis resolver is going bad.
6.) Improperly set backlash parameter for X.
I have two 1985 model Mazaks, one a QT10N, the other a larger QT20N. Aside from a bit of thermal growth, which is common on all cnc's, these old girls will hold a couple of tenths all day long!
Catman Greg
If the machine won't hold .001", then it could only be a few, fairly simple and fixable, things:
1.) A worn X-axis ballscrew, which is very rare, and primarily caused by running a machine for a long time with the lube sytem malfunctioning.
2.) Worn, or mis-adjusted, thrust bearings in the X-axis. (The most likely cause here...)
3.) Worn, or mis-adjusted, cogged X-axis drive belt.
4.) Mis-adjusted X-axis gibs. (These are box-way machines.)
5.) The X-axis resolver is going bad.
6.) Improperly set backlash parameter for X.
I have two 1985 model Mazaks, one a QT10N, the other a larger QT20N. Aside from a bit of thermal growth, which is common on all cnc's, these old girls will hold a couple of tenths all day long!
Catman Greg
What's the resolver do? Is that the position encoder?
I think I can handle most of those conditions.
What's the bar capacity on the 10N? I just want another spindle for hand loading stuff or making things that need made when other machines are tied up.
Think I should try and get it? He wants $5000 for it.
I think I can handle most of those conditions.
What's the bar capacity on the 10N? I just want another spindle for hand loading stuff or making things that need made when other machines are tied up.
Think I should try and get it? He wants $5000 for it.
cnctoolcat
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2006
- Location
- Abingdon, VA
A resolver is the 80's version of an encoder.
Like I say, if the machine is not holding tolerances in X, the most likely culprit is worn thrust bearings. These machines have 30-degree slanted carriages, so the X thrust bearings carry a lot of mass as the turret moves up and down.
Worst case would be a worn ballscrew, which would probably only be worn in one small area. Machines used in production often spend most of their life within a couple inches of travel on the screws, thus the wear gets concentrated in these areas. But if the lube system to the X ballscrew is OK, then there is a 99.9% chance your screw is good. If not, figure about 1500 for a rebuild on the screw.
The QT10N bar capacity from the factory is 1-3/4". But, the spindle itself has about a 2-1/4" hole, so it is possible to upgrade the draw cylinder and tube to a 2" capacity bar if you need to.
$5,000 is a good price for a good condition QT10N. That's about what it would bring at an auction. Dealers will ask 10 to 15k, depending on condition.
I would tell the guy straight up that you can not use the machine if it only holds .001", but that you are willing to invest some time and money to get the machine right. Thus maybe he will come of the price some??
Like I say, if the machine is not holding tolerances in X, the most likely culprit is worn thrust bearings. These machines have 30-degree slanted carriages, so the X thrust bearings carry a lot of mass as the turret moves up and down.
Worst case would be a worn ballscrew, which would probably only be worn in one small area. Machines used in production often spend most of their life within a couple inches of travel on the screws, thus the wear gets concentrated in these areas. But if the lube system to the X ballscrew is OK, then there is a 99.9% chance your screw is good. If not, figure about 1500 for a rebuild on the screw.
The QT10N bar capacity from the factory is 1-3/4". But, the spindle itself has about a 2-1/4" hole, so it is possible to upgrade the draw cylinder and tube to a 2" capacity bar if you need to.
$5,000 is a good price for a good condition QT10N. That's about what it would bring at an auction. Dealers will ask 10 to 15k, depending on condition.
I would tell the guy straight up that you can not use the machine if it only holds .001", but that you are willing to invest some time and money to get the machine right. Thus maybe he will come of the price some??
kevinsr
Aluminum
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2013
cats right on
the best the guy is gonna get from a dealer is a few thousand bucks and that would be a rare day
your the guys best chance at an easy sale unless he gives it away at 14 cents a pound
i've let a bunch of these old mazaks go and there ain't much to be got for them the easy way
the best the guy is gonna get from a dealer is a few thousand bucks and that would be a rare day
your the guys best chance at an easy sale unless he gives it away at 14 cents a pound
i've let a bunch of these old mazaks go and there ain't much to be got for them the easy way
