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University Machine Shop - Arkansas

Tony Raine

Plastic
Joined
Sep 1, 2016
My name's Tony, and I work at ASU Jonesboro for the College of Engineering. Worked in Maintenance for 10 years (Master Plumber, Backflow testing/repair, & HP Boiler Operator are my trade Licenses.) A few months ago when I landed an awesome job as a Shop Foreman, overseeing Senior Design Projects (Steel Bridge, Human Powered Vehicle, Baja, robotics, etc....)


My pride and joy is the HAAS TM-1P that has been unfortunately neglected for at least a few years. I have my BS in CAD, but was never able to find CAD-related employment until now (reason I became a plumber). This machine was purchased after I graduated, so I was never even able to use it while in college. Now I have to brush up on my CAD/CAM skills, and learn how to use it.

So I will be spending most of my time here with the search button, wondering what I have gotten myself into :dunce:

Before I learn how to use it, I'm teaching myself how to clean/maintain it:


Some other cool stuff in the shop:


 
Hi Tony,
Congratulations on the new job! Although I was trained and employed as a physicist my whole career, I was extremely fortunate to work with research macinists for 45 years. They took me under their wing when I was 18, and over the years I became a semi-competent machinst on manual machines. Although making my own parts was a great joy, what really made a HUGE difference in my career (which ultimately centered around building very elaborate and complex tools for research, at UCSB and later IBM Research) was the deep insight into the process of building things and how to design things to be robust, yet simple and easy to build. I learned this in the machine shop, from machinists. I always had a huge respect for craftsmen of any variety, and when the machinists at UCSB or IBM relized that I genuinely admired and respected them, and would value any ideas and thoughts about what I was trying to design, the floodgates opened and they taught me the most amazing things; things they never teach in a classroom. How to measure things, the use of tools, how NOT to design things, materials that work and those that are nightmares, what tolerances really MEAN, and how to draw a part so that it was easy for a machinist to understand. Being machinists, they had a VERY limited tolerance for bad ideas and bullshit. They trusted me to listen to them and learn and not to play the "I am the designer- do it MY way" card, and as a result, when I went down to the shop with a tricky design issue, they would roll their eyes, hand me a donut and a cup of coffee, and pull out some paper and a pencil and show me the light. I am retired now, and the single thing I miss most about that is not being able to wander down to the shop with a half baked idea and head back to my office and CAD system an hour later with a clear picture of how to solve the problem (and a donut, of course...).

Anyway, your new job has the potential to impact your students for a lifetime. Working in first the student shop at UCSB and later the really stupendous shops at IBM was critical to my professional success over a long career. Often, in my opinion (and observation), mechanical engineers are very brilliant at some things, but very naive in the arena of how things are actually made. They sometimes tolerance things with CYA (cover your ass) precision when a 5 minute conversation with the people building their designs would help them understand how to do it so that the parts are easy to build to the required tolerances and yet cost far less to make. So keep the impact that building things with your own hands has on a budding engineer in mind, and try to help the students not only survive the process with all fingers attached, but also expose them to the entire world of fabrication and practical design issues. Your enthusiasm will amplify theirs and you are going to have a ball!!

One note of caution, however. I am sure you are aware, professionally, of the need for safe shop practices. Students, mostly (and especially grad students and post-docs) are often both ignorant of proper procedures and too arrogant or hurried to be in the mood to listen to a lecture about them or follow them. I have seen some things done in shops by ignorant people with the potential for horrendous consequences. Fortunatly, in my personal life, I have never seen someone badly injured, but the potential is ALWAYS there. It is really HARD!!!! to get young people to take safety seriously, and I urge you to think LONG and HARD about what rules and procedures you wish to have in the shop, and also how on earth to communicate and enforce them. When I was a student, there was a lengthy, formal machine shop class, where we were taught these things, and if we did not follow the procedures, we would be banned from the shop. This was agreed upon by the management of the shop and the faculty as a policy, with the power to do this resting with the shop supervisor. Largely, this was effective.

Perhaps you can develop a class yourself, which can teach safety, but also measuring techniques, simple design issues, how machine tools work, feeds and speeds, fixturing, materials 101, what tools are made of and how to sharpen and use them, and so on. It was not clear from your pictures just how many machines you have, nor what they were, but most student shops end up with older, often worn out stuff, with poor fixturing and limited measuring and cutting tools. It is really difficult in many schools to get the faculty to properly support a shop, as academics sometimes have trouble understanding that this is where the rubber meets the road. Educating them, getting funding, and getting newer machines into a school is hard. For what it is worth, I HIGHLY recommend reaching out to the community on Practical Machinist and getting a good discussion about these issues going. I am sure there are many shops that might have some bits and pieces lying about they could donate, if you can establish an easy process for doing so. A tax credit would sweeten the pot.

Anyway, best of luck! And get that mill off the 2x4s before it crushes someones foot!

Michael
 
My name's Tony, and I work at ASU Jonesboro for the College of Engineering. Worked in Maintenance for 10 years (Master Plumber, Backflow testing/repair, & HP Boiler Operator are my trade Licenses.) A few months ago when I landed an awesome job as a Shop Foreman, overseeing Senior Design Projects (Steel Bridge, Human Powered Vehicle, Baja, robotics, etc....)


My pride and joy is the HAAS TM-1P that has been unfortunately neglected for at least a few years. I have my BS in CAD, but was never able to find CAD-related employment until now (reason I became a plumber). This machine was purchased after I graduated, so I was never even able to use it while in college. Now I have to brush up on my CAD/CAM skills, and learn how to use it.

So I will be spending most of my time here with the search button, wondering what I have gotten myself into :dunce:

Before I learn how to use it, I'm teaching myself how to clean/maintain it:


Some other cool stuff in the shop:



congratulations....

Job #2....Start lobbying for a CNC lathe....
Job #3... The old ones could also use some maintenance elbow grease form the looks in the pictures.

dee
;-D
 
Hi Tony,
Congratulations on the new job!...

...Anyway, best of luck! And get that mill off the 2x4s before it crushes someones foot!

Michael

Thanks! And to sum up all of what you said.... I agree! and don't worry, those 2x4's are solid steel :nutter:

I'm starting this job like many I have done at ASU. Go in with limited knowledge, learn from those that know, teach myself the rest. I've been asked how I got a "machine shop" job without having any machinist knowledge. I told them that if they knew any machinists willing to cut their salary waaaay down to $31,000 a year, they should have applied. Last 2 in this position couldn't live with the pay cut (lateral transfer for me :D ). So this shop spent a lot of time empty of supervision. When I first walked in, the tool drawers were mostly empty because the hand tools were all over the shop. The lathe had a mountain of shavings on it, and the old mill had busted/burned bits scattered everywhere.

The best thing I bring to the shop is my desire to help people succeed. That has shocked more than a few students. Also, the department liked my "practical application" background. At ASU, I have worked Landscaping, Motor Pool, Delivery/Events, Administrative Assistant, Tool Room (Inventory/maintenance/repair of Facilities Management tools ranging from socket sets to dump trucks), Recycling, Custodial Equipment Repairs, Boiler Crew, Plumbing Crew, and finally a Skilled Trades Supervisor(the youngest). All of this working side-by-side with people my parents age. Caught a ton of crap being a young, non-religious, liberal, "damn yankee" doing manual labor in Arkansas. That's ok, I ignored the negativity. Instead I looked for the quiet old guys that knew their trade and were waiting for someone to listen & learn, instead of just complaining about how hard their job is or how little money they make. I'll jump in a trench and learn something.

Outside of work I enjoy working on anything with wheels and a motor, gardening, and reloading.

I've only been in this job a few months, first step was to get the shop functional again. Spent the whole summer sorting tools, cleaning/repairing equipment, and just cleaning in general. I am working with a couple professors to have "field trips" to my shop, starting with safety and basic tool identification. We have freshmen engineering majors that have never held a wrench :eek:

I don't have the education level to formally teach (yet), but the "field trips" will be for a grade in the professor's class they came from. And yes, I can ban students from the shop (or pieces of equipment), but I don't think I will ever have to. I made one group clean a section of shop after some careless/disrespectful choices were made. They did well, and we continue to get along.

And yes, tool selection is not the best. I've actually donated some of my own tools. I've made upgrades using leftover material from side jobs. One of my biggest drawbacks is that i am not "in" with the multiple factories/shops in this area.

I have a lot on my plate, however, I deeply enjoy all the new things I get to learn.
 
One of my biggest drawbacks is that i am not "in" with the multiple factories/shops in this area.

Well that is something that you can change....start by making contacts will all the local manufacturers, Figure out what they do, ask them if they had input to a machine shop curriculum at the local university what is that they would like to see. Everybody who hires a new graduate has to train them, It is your chance to get a jump start on that. Eventually they will be more willing to donate time and resources to you if they see the benefits. Not saying it will happen overnight but unless you start the relationship the local industry will mainly ignore you.

Also ask the ASU administrators if they have continual education programs that they could offer to the local trades after hours that would involve the machine shop. Get something like TIG welding classes going. Or simple CAD/CAM. Some of the local job shops may sign up for it just to figure out if they want to go CBC or not. A few hundreds for an intro class is more economical than an expensive mistake on equipment.

dee
;-D
 
Hello Tony,
My experience has been that communication is absolutely vital for success in your job. To this end, here are a few suggestions:
1> Get the faculty seriously on your side. To do this you have to get to know them and them, you. You need to be able to sell them on the value of having a really kick ass shop to both further their own ends, and also to enable their students. Perhaps enlist some students to help you make a presentation about the merits of getting a shop done right. This can include researching the projects built by the schools that HAVE good shops.

2. Give Tom Lipton a call, or write a letter. He is "Oxtoolco" on You tube, and has a lifetime of expertise in precision machining while working at Lawrence Berkeley Lab. He seems to be a very generous man, with a strong interest in education. There are a number of internet machinists that you might wish to watch/communicate with. On Youtube, some of these are Keith Fenner (Turnwright machine works), Adam Booth (ABOM79), and many others linked on their shows. Given that your background is not specifically maching, you may wish to educate yourself further. The folks listed above are a good place to start. Prepare to go without sleep a lot! Perhaps you can get Keith Fenner and his friends to help with the limited tools. He does a "What is in your Box" giveaway of a huge toolbox full of machinist specific stuff every now and then. At least enter for either yourself or the shop.

3. Check out Alexander Slocum of PERG (Precision Engineering Research Group) at MIT. His website is http://pergatory.mit.edu/index.html. The MIT student shop is at Student Shops | Edgerton Center. Take a while to dig around in his website. In particular, look closely at the presentations and papers in this link: http://web.mit.edu/2.75/fundamentals/FUNdaMENTALS.html. Now, Slocums group is a high level university research group, but he has always struck me as the sort of person who loved shops. If you have a friendly professor in the ME department, perhaps you can discuss with him the HUGE!!!! value that a good shop would make to his efforts and show him Slocum's site. It is to everyone's advantage for your shop to be a very good one. You just need to educate people in the department.

4. Get the mill off that (steel) 2x4! that is NOT how you raise a machine tool.

5.Drill presses encourage students to get trips to the hospital with blood and gore and missing parts. Someone will INEVITABLY try to use one with an end mill in it. Never leave a tool with drills or end mills or whatever in the chuck. Or a lathe chuck with the key in it...

6. Make some field trips to local machine shops. Perhaps readers on this site can suggest some good ones. Some of them will look at you like you came from Mars, but others will succomb to your boyish good looks and charm. In any case, solicit them for materials, old but usable tools, vises, etc. often they have drops they would be willing to give you. Perhaps they will give tours to your students.Find the metals suppliers, both new and scrap, in your area and inquire if you can get discounts for the university. Won't happen if you don't ask! Visit the faculty office and find out how to allow people to get a deduction on their taxes for donating things, and discuss with the faculty and the administration what sort of things they will allow to be donated. There are probably rules. Know them and make it EASY for people to donate. Enlist some students to help. Make a flyer about your new/old shop and your plans to make it bigger and better. Start a website for the shop. USE STUDENTS! It gets them involved and they make websites like I eat ibuprofen.

7. You probably have a budget, but make a request for decent measuring and hand tools for you as the supervisor. Then order a bunch of micrometers, Mitutoyo digital calipers, depth gauges, gauge blocks, gauge pins, parallels, squares, indicators, thread gauges, feeler gauges, and so on. Keep them in a LOCKED cabinet. Otherwise they WILL get used as doorstops or go missing. You can do amazing things with EBAY. Work with the administration on how to use EBAY to get stuff for the shop. You need to have some sort of direct purchasing power (with the accompanying headache of documentation, sigh...). Lobby the administration HARD to allow you (and fund) putting Digital Readouts) on the mill and the lathe. I use Newall in my shop and like it (and have installed them myself on my various tools), but there are other vendors. Hit them up for a university donation or discount. If there are a few students catching fire about a machine shop, get some of them to help refurbish the mill. H&W Machine will supply any part for the mill. Ask for a discount. They are nice people. Maybe it will work. If not refine your sob story for the next vendor. Repeat until they give you twice as much as you ask for... Hahaha.....


8. After you resolve the donations issue, contact toolvendors (end mills, turning tools, boring heads, etc, etc) and give them a pitch. I bet you will get some good stuff. Be sure to tell them what sort of stuff you have, or else they may send some great 2" shank end mills you cannot use.

9. CNC is everyone's favorite thing. All the kiddies desperately want to learn it. I SUGGEST humbly that you develop a MANUAL machining course, with making an assembly of some sort from a toleranced drawing of the parts (made using mill, lathe, hand files, etc) as an exam that has to be passed (i.e hit the tolerances and assemble the thing) before they even TOUCH the CNC tools. CNC does not (arguably- let the flames begin) teach you how machine tools work, how to measure things, how to use hand tools, how to read drawings, how to understand at a visceral level feeds and speeds, and what good chips look like, and what a tool sounds like when it is in distress, and a million other fundamental things that all old timers know as well as breathing, and which form the basis for any good machinist's knowledge base, CNC or manual.

10. Get a good notebook to keep track of things. I use quardille ruled ones 8 1/2" by 11" from National, but use whatever works for you. You will find it invaluable for keeping track of shop needs, issues, people's phone numbers, and a million other things. For a scientist they are as necessary as air, but for your job, perhaps not as familiar. Still VERY useful for staying organized. Having a cup of coffee and writing a list in a notebook, or sketching a new gizmo is very satisfying.


11. Get the faculty on your side as active partners!!!! This is absolutely crucial to getting resources, and with political support you can flourish. Without it, not so much. As a practical person, the communication, faculty tickling, donation asking, paperwork for donation generating, etc stuff may seem ugly and not in your wheelhouse. I ASSURE you that it is often ugly, but if it is NOT part of your way of doing business, you will have a tough time getting more than you have now. I have deep personal experience with a number of university machine shops, and can tell you that it is NEVER easy to get what you need. With a few professors rabidly on your side, good things WILL happen. Sad but true... Look carefully at the link I sent to the MIT shops. These are about the best that university shops get, although I am sure there are many others of similar quality. Something to aspire to, and a good bait for the professors. "Just imagine, Professor X, what a cool robot/car/spacecraft/yournamehere your students could make if ONLY we had a shop like THIS!!"

Anyway, I could go on for hours. Try to stay visible here on PM and solicit opinions and contributions, advice and encouragement. If you can keep anyone from getting injured, I think you will get great satisfaction and joy from this new job. Just remember the old adage: "It is impossible to make anything foolproof, because fools are so damn ingenious". This applies double to students!

Best wishes,
Michael
 
I'm strictly an amateur metalworker, but one series that I found very useful when I was starting is the Dan Frank machine shop videos on youtube. He's an experienced guy working in a situation like yours. There has been some disagreement her with some aspects of his recommendations (surprise,surprise), but the videos might be useful to you. Google "mit machine shop videos".
 
Thanks everyone for all the suggestions! Some I have done, some are in process, and many I hadn't thought of.

Not sure why the mill is on blocks, right now I don't have the equipment to move it. I have a pallet jack, but I am waiting on a seal kit (someone tried to rebuild it with standard-width o-rings...) i should be able to lift, lay the blocks over, and set it back down. would that work? or does it need to be flat on the floor?

Luckily, the buildings the Engineers use were part of my "zone" as a maintenance supervisor. Had a small crew handling the majority of maintenance needs for 2 Science buildings, an Agri building, and parts of a bioscience research facility. About once a week, a professor will tell me they "miss me" being in maintenance. I feel bad for feeling good about that. Some professors were also my teachers when I was in the ME program. I just hope the one I used to flirt with doesn't remember that part, haha. 10 years later, dang she's still cute... :D

Majority of the faculty know my "style" and like it. I have the Dale Carnegie Course to thank for a lot of that.
 
Hi Tony,
Congratulations on the new job! Keep in touch with us.


Good for job seekers Tony's background was not exactly correct for this job so likely his personality helped land the job. He looks like a confident, nice guy that helps greatly.

Agree if needing mill off floor should be on 4 x 4s and full table travel from wall with still some space.. Easy job with a pinch bar to lever up to just miss the 2x4, stack wood flat shims, do the other front, place in the 4x4 with removing shim-ups, then same to rear. To set down pinch up, set on stack of 1 x 3" shims, remove one shim at a time to set down to floor or machine pads or onto the 4x4s. So keeping only at most 1" tilt.
 
Hi Tony,
Congratulations on the new job! Keep in touch with us.


Good for job seekers Tony's background was not exactly correct for this job so likely his personality helped land the job. He looks like a confident, nice guy that helps greatly.

Agree if needing mill off floor should be on 4 x 4s and full table travel from wall with still some space.. Easy job with a pinch bar to lever up to just miss the 2x4, stack wood flat shims, do the other front, place in the 4x4 with removing shim-ups, then same to rear. To set down pinch up, set on stack of 1 x 3" shims, remove one shim at a time to set down to floor or machine pads or onto the 4x4s. So keeping only at most 1" tilt.

Thank you! I'll be combing through this site for a while, I have a LOT to learn. Right now I am searching through the HAAS section. Not for anything specific, just whatever catches my eye.

I actually applied for the job twice. Someone with much more experience got it the first time (I was told the hiring committee was split 50/50 between us 2, and it was debated for quite a while). However, he didn't stay long before money lured him away. Good guy, we got along great. I still talk shop with him occasionally. I believe my personality and general tool/fabrication knowledge are what finally got me in.

This is my hobby outside of normal working hours:






Started with an '84 Bronco II (my first vehicle), then added:
-5.0 from '94 F150, factory 4 barrel aluminum intake from a mustang, holley 650 carb
-np435 trans from an old 3/4 or 1 ton something
-t-case from a 76 bronco
-dana 44 / 9 inch from 79 F150

All swapped outside, in the dirt, with limited tools.
 
Thank you! I'll be combing through this site for a while, I have a LOT to learn. Right now I am searching through the HAAS section. Not for anything specific, just whatever catches my eye.

I actually applied for the job twice. Someone with much more experience got it the first time (I was told the hiring committee was split 50/50 between us 2, and it was debated for quite a while). However, he didn't stay long before money lured him away. Good guy, we got along great. I still talk shop with him occasionally. I believe my personality and general tool/fabrication knowledge are what finally got me in.

This is my hobby outside of normal working hours:






Started with an '84 Bronco II (my first vehicle), then added:
-5.0 from '94 F150, factory 4 barrel aluminum intake from a mustang, holley 650 carb
-np435 trans from an old 3/4 or 1 ton something
-t-case from a 76 bronco
-dana 44 / 9 inch from 79 F150

All swapped outside, in the dirt, with limited tools.

That looks like something Jeff Foxworthy would have something to say about :). But hey it is your backyard, your domain, your kingdom.

dee
'=D
 








 
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