Import telescoping gauges

I have a set of import telescoping gauges that I probably bought when Enco had a sale some time back. I've always known they weren't great, but they seemed far better than calipers for measuring bores. Back then I didn't know enough to think of old used tools. Now I still can't afford new Starrett tools, but I am better at finding old tools that still have some life left in them, so I'm waiting for an old set of Lufkin telescoping gauges to arrive now. I have an old International Tool 3/4" gauge that I got from I don't know where, and it's always been so smooth, whereas the imports were always so - well, anything but smooth. So tonight while I was waiting for some welds to cool, I decided to take one apart and see what makes it tick. Anyway, I hope somebody finds this interesting.

Aside from burrs on every edge, the inside of the outer tube is very roughly bored. These things never stood a chance.

whateg0 said:

I have a set of import telescoping gauges that I probably bought when Enco had a sale some time back. I've always known they weren't great, but they seemed far better than calipers for measuring bores. Back then I didn't know enough to think of old used tools. Now I still can't afford new Starrett tools, but I am better at finding old tools that still have some life left in them, so I'm waiting for an old set of Lufkin telescoping gauges to arrive now. I have an old International Tool 3/4" gauge that I got from I don't know where, and it's always been so smooth, whereas the imports were always so - well, anything but smooth. So tonight while I was waiting for some welds to cool, I decided to take one apart and see what makes it tick. Anyway, I hope somebody finds this interesting.

Aside from burrs on every edge, the inside of the outer tube is very roughly bored. These things never stood a chance.

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No offence intended but I've seen a bicycle repair "shop" (a tent by the side of the road) in very rural Thailand where the guy had better tools than what you describe.

I use mass produced item for my products. The link shows where they are made. What they make isn't the important part. What is important is that everything they make is inspected and no one is expected to have or use their own tools. it's a good company but certainly not unusual. look at the video to see more.

Automatdrejning og fraesning af stal og metalemner / REA Automatdrejning



How can the USA hope to compete with the rest of the world when some shops still believe employees should supply their own tools? A vist to as good as any machine shop over here would be an eye opener.

Gordon B. Clarke said:

No offence intended but I've seen a bicycle repair "shop" (a tent by the side of the road) in very rural Thailand where the guy had better tools than what you describe.

I use mass produced item for my products. The link shows where they are made. What they make isn't the important part. What is important is that everything they make is inspected and no one is expected to have or use their own tools. it's a good company but certainly not unusual. look at the video to see more.

Automatdrejning og fraesning af stal og metalemner / REA Automatdrejning



How can the USA hope to compete with the rest of the world when some shops still believe employees should supply their own tools? A vist to as good as any machine shop over here would be an eye opener.

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And you presume to know he earns a living with them? Maybe he is a home shop guy. Why does a bicycle repair in a tent need a bore gauge? No offence intended? If so why do you run us down at every opportunity? O yeah, I forgot You are the God like all seeing all knowing oracle of metrology and all related sciences, a true to life x spert! Definition of ex spert........X = the unknown quantity......spert = a drip under pressure!

moonlight machine said:

And you presume to know he earns a living with them? Maybe he is a home shop guy. Why does a bicycle repair in a tent need a bore gauge? No offence intended? If so why do you run us down at every opportunity? O yeah, I forgot You are the God like all seeing all knowing oracle of metrology and all related sciences, a true to life x spert! Definition of ex spert........X = the unknown quantity......spert = a drip under pressure!

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It doesn't take much to get you worked up does it? What I wrote was based on the information I had from the OP - no more, no less.

moonlight machine said:

I forgot You are the God like all seeing all knowing oracle ...

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I guess I was lucky. Mr Godlike made a huge squawking fuss over some figment of his imagination, so I put him on ignore right off.

You should try it. Works good.

I started off with cheap chinese ones.

Then I bought a new Mitutoyo set at five times the price of the chinese ones.

I can rely on the sizes I get from the Mitutoyo's.

The chinese ones got scrapped.

I use telescoping gauges all the time for measuring bores, but there is a huge difference in quality with them all. I have several sets of Starret and Lufkin and find them junk as well as some of the imports. To me, the Mitutoyo are infinitely better than all the others. The repeatability and feel gives great confidence. My two cents.

Man, I thought I would help somebody out who someday might be looking to add telescoping gauges to their toolbox and instead I am met with that? Back when I first joined PM, I found some good info and was pretty happy, but then as I spent more time browsing different threads, I found a lot of holier-than-thou attitudes, and I decided I didn't need it. So, I spent a lot of time over on Chaski, instead. Same reason I have abandoned other sites like Metalmeet, where there is only one right way to do anything and all ten thousand only-right-ways get argued about. Not discussed in a civil manner, but name-calling and such. I'm older now, and tend to just ignore that stuff, but it is a bit put-offing to new guys who are genuinely trying to learn, whether they intend to make it a profession or a hobby. I've even read threads where some posters pretty much straight out said they didn't have time to answer hobbiest questions. This forum was only for professionals who know what they are doing!

So, anyway, for me this is a hobby. I make a little money and moreover, I try to be better than I was before. Hold tighter tolerances, not because a job calls for it, but because I see it as an improvement to myself. In fact, even on stuff that is absolutely not critical in nature at all, I find myself thinking, oh, I can get closer than that!

The fact this is a hobby for me or anybody else shouldn't hold people back from helping, IMHO. In fact, those are the people who often need it most. And in this day and age, where the emphasis seems to be on not getting one's hands dirty, the more help I can give to somebody willing to work, the better I feel about it.

Sorry for the rant.

steve-l said:

I use telescoping gauges all the time for measuring bores, but there is a huge difference in quality with them all. I have several sets of Starret and Lufkin and find them junk as well as some of the imports. To me, the Mitutoyo are infinitely better than all the others. The repeatability and feel gives great confidence. My two cents.

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It's so hard to know what to buy anymore. New or used, everybody has had a bad experience with something. The unfortunate thing is that even name brands are known for making junk nowadays. I read a comment from somebody "Don't buy anything modern from Starrett that has a gear train", for example. But I have quite a few old Starrett tools, from vernier height gauges, to mics, to indicators. Most I was able to pick up for what import stuff would have cost new, and I don't really have any problems with any. That could just mean that I don't know any better. I would hate to be just starting out now and have so many brands to choose from, and not know if any of them are any good.

I have been watching a few Mit sets and maybe one day I'll go ahead and get one. They are still going for more than I really feel comfortable spending on them. I just force myself to put off a bunch of little items so I could buy a new TIG welder, so I'm back to budgeting.

RC99 said:

I started off with cheap chinese ones.

Then I bought a new Mitutoyo set at five times the price of the chinese ones.

I can rely on the sizes I get from the Mitutoyo's.

The chinese ones got scrapped.

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I can't say that I regret buying my Chinese set. It was a good learning experience. But yes, they do appear to be junk. Like others, when I started out, I didn't know anything about machine work. I had done a lot of woodworking in the past, and did a lot of welding and fab work. My rant above is one reason I kind of went on my own and just bought some cheap tools, not being able to afford any new name brand stuff and not having experience with any of the old "vintage" tools to know which of those to avoid. I now have a few machinist friends and also some friends who do machine work, so I can ask questions of them, and knowing more about the work now, I can ask questions or search for info I need to make informed decisions today. And sometimes I do just that. (Other times I drive 1000 miles x2 to buy a basketcase 10ee that is going to need a lot of work to really be a good machine!) But that's why I think posts like the original above are good. If a new guy can wade through the bickering and find the real meat of the forum, this can help him understand what he gets when he buys a new import tool, at least in this case.

I bought a Starrett set just to see how it felt compared to the mitutoyo I use at work. One of the gages binds, the others feel like crap. There's a lot to these little things and so far mitutoyo hasn't let me down for anything, Starrett has on multiple occasions.

#1 whategO

Used a few makes, but not all day, every day, for years.
Disassembled none.
Mitutoyo seemed the best I used at work, so I bought a set for myself.
"Seem" being a very vague term, I have not performed any tests, certainly none with any "science" in them.
But no reason a home user cannot get, with practise, the best possible use out of them.

These are not state of the art instruments, anyone using them does so because they cannot afford, or cannot justify the expense of, something quicker, with better resolution, SPC compatible, etc.

NB. There is a reason GBC Instruments have ~16000 contributions to PM. Not everyone in Europe is the same.

I hardly work on large bores so I bought a set of 5/16"-6" telescoping gauges. The small one flew apart once the handle unscrewed and I lost the spring, but they work just fine.

As they break I will replace them with Mitutoyo's.

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

I bought a set of Enco ones years ago because I hardly ever need to use telescoping gages. They are completely useless as they will not repeat at all. Throw them away and buy something good.

whateg0 said:

It's so hard to know what to buy anymore. New or used, everybody has had a bad experience with something. The unfortunate thing is that even name brands are known for making junk nowadays.

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This is a direct result of the Money Money Uber Alles direction of our society. The banksters are well on their way to destroying everything so that they can make another .002% prooooofit !! It's the story of Midas all over, except now it's systemic

I read a comment from somebody "Don't buy anything modern from Starrett that has a gear train", for example. But I have quite a few old Starrett tools, from vernier height gauges, to mics, to indicators. Most I was able to pick up for what import stuff would have cost new, and I don't really have any problems with any. That could just mean that I don't know any better. I would hate to be just starting out now and have so many brands to choose from, and not know if any of them are any good.

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Okay, since I've only seen rah-rah posts for MittyMoto, I'll put in my two cents :

Etalon.

If you want good, you buy Etalon. Period.

... I'm back to budgeting.

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Oops. Forget what I just said about Etalon

The last time I used telescoping gauges was over 45 years ago. Back then there weren't too many alternatives.

They were Starrett and good. I don't know the percentage but very few of Starrett tools are now made in the USA. Back then the ones I used were US made.

Nowadays the more parts something consists of the more likely it is that parts will come from umpteen countries.
Whether or not that is good depends very much on the name on the finished product and if they wish to keep a good reputation. Some master that art much better than others.

I started buying personal tools at the age of 12. I had a summer job scraping grease and crud of Texaco tanker truck chassis. An old very experienced mechanic worked there that I really looked up to. One day at lunch time, I was eating my sandwich with him and I asked him how he could afford his huge toolbox full of Snap On tools. He replied that the very best tools are infinitely less expensive than lesser quality tools over time. He then said that for every paycheck he received, he would buy at least one quality tool. I am now 73 and his advice so many years ago was spot on. I have followed his advice since then religiously. I pass his very wise advice on to all. Never buy anything but the best quality, anything less is a waste of hard earned money and you will regret it.

The use of telescoping gauges is very much an acquired skill set. Good ones have excellent accuracy and repeatability, but only if you have the well practiced skill and feel.

steve-l said:

I started buying personal tools at the age of 12. I had a summer job scraping grease and crud of Texaco tanker truck chassis. An old very experienced mechanic worked there that I really looked up to. One day at lunch time, I was eating my sandwich with him and I asked him how he could afford his huge toolbox full of Snap On tools. He replied that the very best tools are infinitely less expensive than lesser quality tools over time. He then said that for every paycheck he received, he would buy at least one quality tool. I am now 73 and his advice so many years ago was spot on. I have followed his advice since then religiously. I pass his very wise advice on to all. Never buy anything but the best quality, anything less is a waste of hard earned money and you will regret it.

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How common is it nowadays that machinists in Germany use their own tools? I never thought to ask but from the shops and companies I've been to in Germany, I didn't get the impression any were using their own tools.

Gordon B. Clarke said:

The last time I used telescoping gauges was over 45 years ago. Back then there weren't too many alternatives.

They were Starrett and good. I don't know the percentage but very few of Starrett tools are now made in the USA. Back then the ones I used were US made.

Nowadays the more parts something consists of the more likely it is that parts will come from umpteen countries.
Whether or not that is good depends very much on the name on the finished product and if they wish to keep a good reputation. Some master that art much better than others.

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I watched a youtube video of a tour of the Athol factory and it looks like they still make a lot of stuff there. I think I'd read somewhere that many of their items are made overseas now. Regardless of where they are made, though, I have read stories of people getting new Starrett tools today and finding swarf in the threads, rough finishes, etc.

steve-l said:

...Never buy anything but the best quality, anything less is a waste of hard earned money and you will regret it.

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I don't entirely disagree with you. Certainly a high quality tool is better to have than a low quality tool. And for tools used on the job, it makes sense to do so, as time is money. I rarely search out the lowest quality tool to buy, but sometimes, when one doesn't know any better, that is what you end up with. Sometimes, too, tradeoffs must be made.

Before I bought my first welder, I was scrounging and saving to buy it. I ended up with a machine that did the job, but was by no means the best machine on the market. It was underpowered, and lacked features that more expensive, name-brand welders had. But it welded. I was able to build stuff that I could not have built otherwise. A few years later I was able to afford a Miller MM180 and I love it. But if I had waited until I could afford that welder before buying anything at all, I would have been sitting on the sofa dreaming of welding for a good while longer.

I'll also add that in today's market, name-brand doesn't necessarily mean it's the best tool. With many manufacturers moving production to places with cheaper labor, what used to qualify as a good brand may not be true anymore. I don't own any Fowler tools, but everything I've read over the past couple years about them says that their quality today isn't what it used to be. Maybe it's still well above that of cheap Chinese imports, I don't know.