Thread: Looking for a used Brown & Sharpe Microval CMM

My Microval CMM has finally bit the dust. After 25 years, the plastic tubing that routes air through the machine has deteriorated so that if you touch it, it breaks. The machine worked fine a week ago for a reverse engineering project that I did for my neighbor. Then it crapped out because of multiple breaks in the air tubing. This tubing follows a rats nest maze, so I cannot replace it; hence my request for a air system schematic for this machine. It looks like this schematic will not be forthcoming. I hate to lose the utility of this machine for reverse engineering, so I am considering replaceing it with a machine at least 10 to 15 years newer. Does anybody have any leads on such a machine?

Lord Byron

Omni Tech has an Xcel pfx for sale. OMNI-TECH : Welcome to Omni-Tech Corporation - The Industry Standard for Total CMM Support I have an Xcel PFX 01 model that I just had to replace all of the lines last year. Hexagon came and did it. I think it was around 3500.00. No problems now. Seems really high to have done, but alot cheaper than another CMM.

Originally Posted by Bruce Nelson

My Microval CMM has finally bit the dust. After 25 years, the plastic tubing that routes air through the machine has deteriorated so that if you touch it, it breaks. The machine worked fine a week ago for a reverse engineering project that I did for my neighbor. Then it crapped out because of multiple breaks in the air tubing. This tubing follows a rats nest maze, so I cannot replace it; hence my request for a air system schematic for this machine. It looks like this schematic will not be forthcoming. I hate to lose the utility of this machine for reverse engineering, so I am considering replaceing it with a machine at least 10 to 15 years newer. Does anybody have any leads on such a machine?

Lord Byron

I'll throw in the obvious here...Can you not get a reel of each size of tubing required and then replace one at a time?

I had the exact same thing occur last July. I called the local dealer and had them send me a "tubing kit". It took about 30 minits of saying really bad things to myself to realise I should let them come do it. Cost was a total of about 1500.00. That included the service call, the tubing kit, AND a full recalibration. I have a Micro-val 454 with micro measure 3 software. My "Local' dealer in upstate NY is Primetech sales, can't say enough good things about these folks. 800-642-4243 give Amy a call to see who your local dealer is. The cost of the tubing kit was pretty expensive for what you get, so I would not reccomend buying it. Get them out, have them go thru the whole machine and try to get another 25 out of it. Buying machinery in a "Panic" is never a good Idea. repair this, and PLAN your upgrade.
Regards,
Chris
Chris

Originally Posted by Fulcircleny

I had the exact same thing occur last July. I called the local dealer and had them send me a "tubing kit". It took about 30 minits of saying really bad things to myself to realise I should let them come do it. Cost was a total of about 1500.00. That included the service call, the tubing kit, AND a full recalibration. I have a Micro-val 454 with micro measure 3 software. My "Local' dealer in upstate NY is Primetech sales, can't say enough good things about these folks. 800-642-4243 give Amy a call to see who your local dealer is. The cost of the tubing kit was pretty expensive for what you get, so I would not reccomend buying it. Get them out, have them go thru the whole machine and try to get another 25 out of it. Buying machinery in a "Panic" is never a good Idea. repair this, and PLAN your upgrade.
Regards,
Chris
Chris

Many thanks for your suggestion. It is good to get advice from someone who has had this problem and had a successful outcome. I got in contact with the local dealer that services these machines. My original thought was since this machine was so old that it wouldn't pay to put up much money for fixing it. Upon researching the internet to replace this unit, and your timely advice, it has become apparent that this is still a valuable and useful machine; and the wise money is to do what you have already done. They said that they could do the repairs on site, and that they would give me a quote of the cost that I would have to pay. Yours was exactly the advice that I needed. Many thanks for teaching an old dog a new lesson!

Lord Byron

Tony & Bruce,
Do either of your CMMs use a DOS-based computer and software? Mine dates from 1989 and uses a propietary board with its own OS and an 80186 CPU, so I'm a little concerned about having a backup for the software or a way to run it from a DOS or Windows-based computer.
Mike

Hello,
I've read this thread and my interest lies in the fact that I have a Brown and Sharpe Validator CMM in very good condition but I do not have the software or computer components that went with it. I had thought I could make use of it myself but find that the software does not seem available in a price range I can work with right now. Do any of you know of a place I might find the software for it or is there any demand for an older CMM like this even though I don't have the software? Thanks for any input or ideas you might be able to provide!
Wes

Gentlemen,

This is not the For Sale section.

If you're looking for s/w or accessories for instruments, that's fine, but buying or selling outright belongs in the Machinery FS/Wanted forum.

If somebody is looking for something that you have, respond via Private Message rather than in the thread.

- Leigh

Originally Posted by The real Leigh

Gentlemen,

This is not the For Sale section.

If you're looking for s/w or accessories for instruments, that's fine, but buying or selling outright belongs in the Machinery FS/Wanted forum.

If somebody is looking for something that you have, respond via Private Message rather than in the thread.

- Leigh

Sorry, I edited the post and hope it is better now. Tried to remove the pictures but looks like they are still there.
Wes

Hi Wes,

You're OK. I decided to post a clarification because the thread seemed to be drifting in the wrong direction.

I should have noted that there's also a Tooling, Parts and Accessories FS/Wanted section.

Thanks.

- Leigh

Originally Posted by Mike Henry

Tony & Bruce,
Do either of your CMMs use a DOS-based computer and software? Mine dates from 1989 and uses a propietary board with its own OS and an 80186 CPU, so I'm a little concerned about having a backup for the software or a way to run it from a DOS or Windows-based computer.
Mike

Mine dates from about 1986 and does not have a DOS based computer running the Micromeasure 3 software that is contained in the CPU on the back of the machine. There is no way that you can load software or back up software on this CPU. All of the inputs to the machine are by a monochrome monitor and a light pen attached to the CPU. I use this machine for reverse engineering, the software for which is installed on a DOS based 386 external computer that operates independently from the machine's CPU. Note to Leigh: I am neither buying or selling anything, but am sharing technical knowledge.

Lord Byron

Thanks for the info Bruce. Looks like the software on mine (Micromeasure II Plus, 3.0A) are stored on 16 socketed EPROMs. When time allows, I plan to see what it would take to make backups of these chips, assuming that they are still functional. At first glance it doesn't look too expensive, but I really haven't checked into any details yet.

Replacing the other chips would be a lot more difficult as almost all of them are soldered to the board. There are ways around that though.

Yours might be newer than 1986, since you have a newer version of the software than my 1989 CMM.

Mike

PS: I'm also just looking to trade info - not buy or sell anything.

Hello, how would I go about obtaining the date of mfg. for my B&S CMM? I have the information from the label so I presume I could get the other information from the place that last did the service on it? Not sure if they will provide the information since it was owned by someone else then.
Wes

Check the case that has the electronics - mine has a label with the S/N and some patent numbers on it.

Mike

Metalworkz - Have you tried contacting Brown and Sharpe directly through their website? They may be able to help you out. Preowned Brown & Sharpe CMMs - Brown & Sharpe

Bruce,
Since this thread popped up again. I'm curious, how did you make out with your repair? Are you satisfied?

Chris

This reply is for the benefit of Fulcircleny. I have just had the re-hosing, and laser calibration for my Microval completed at noon today. A technician from Precision from Blaine, Minnesota spent one and one half days here on the job, plus I did most of the disassembly and assembly tasks. They gave me a quote of $2,000 for the rehosing, and $473 for the laser calibration. Plus, I have to pay for 2 days of travel to my location. I would expect that when I recieve the invoice I will recieve some credit, as it took one day less than the quoted time for the job.

Whatever the damages payment wise, I am satisfied that I have a Microval in tip-top condition, and all alignment is within .0002. When I purchased this machine, it cost me close to $20,000 for the machine, cabinetry, Renishaw touch probe and accessories, and reverse engineering software. When my hoses deteriorated, I thought I would have to scrap the machine. Cooler heads prevailed, thanks to the advice from Fulcircleny. This machine has retained its value from the initial purchase in 1989. For your information, the version of software that I have on the Microval is 2.4.

Lord Byron

Great to hear it!! Wishing you good health and profitability with it!!

Regards,
Chris

Originally Posted by Mike Henry

Tony & Bruce,
Do either of your CMMs use a DOS-based computer and software? Mine dates from 1989 and uses a propietary board with its own OS and an 80186 CPU, so I'm a little concerned about having a backup for the software or a way to run it from a DOS or Windows-based computer.
Mike

That is actually no barrier.

Any OS - Apple, Unix or Linux as well as MS - has available direct DOS emulators and/or 'Virtualization' tools that can replicate the CPU and rest of the environment needed, even when their own is of a different 'race' of CPU. They also do it so fast and well the performance is better than the original yet won't even make a dent in their resources.

That said, any 'All in One' X86-family PCB, 'industrial' or Point-of-Sale terminal types especially, are usually less hassle to connect, as one can be 'boxed' powered, then left with the gear as dedicated to the task.

Bill

Originally Posted by thermite

That is actually no barrier.

Any OS - Apple, Unix or Linux as well as MS - has available direct DOS emulators and/or 'Virtualization' tools that can replicate the CPU and rest of the environment needed, even when their own is of a different 'race' of CPU. They also do it so fast and well the performance is better than the original yet won't even make a dent in their resources.

That said, any 'All in One' X86-family PCB, 'industrial' or Point-of-Sale terminal types especially, are usually less hassle to connect, as one can be 'boxed' powered, then left with the gear as dedicated to the task.

Bill

The barrier is that the Microval computer in this case is a box that contains the operating system and the program that operates the system on e-prom chips. There is no provision for a hard drive and not even a keyboard to make entries. Location points are entered into the Microval computer by the use of a Renishaw touch probe system. The communication with the program is with a light pen and a monochrome monitor on my machine. My reverse engineering program operates on a dos based personal computer that connects to the Microval computer by a serial port. This allows me to use the Microval to input geometry into my reverse engineering program sort of like a giant mouse.

To upgrade this Microval computer to a current system would cost $20,000, not including the cost of a new upgrade of the reverse engineering program.
So you see that it is advantageous to me to keep the current system as it is for as long as I can, as it operates extremely satisfactory since the Microval has been re-hosed. I have a substitute dos-based computer that I can replace the current one with, plus I just purchased a new Apple monochrome monitor to replace the current one with when it craps out. The only thing that I cannot replace is the light pen, because I can't find a supplier for this item.

Your statement about the operating systems being able to operate any computer system is interesting, but not probably applicable to this purpose.

Lord Byron