Mitutoyo Brazil

guest · Apr 28, 2017

I bought some new dial calipers this year- apparently the Mitutoyo dials under 12" are all made in Brazil now. I had already got new 8 and 12 inchers, so I called my supplier to get a new 6 incher to round out the set.

He had a half dozen on hand, so I asked him to sort through the certs and pick out the best one for me, which he did. Everything on the cert said .0005" or better.

One day I was running a lathe job where the hole depth is a basic callout. I set the depth by a depth mike, but during the run I will randomly quick-check with the depth bar on the calipers just to make sure nothing is moving.

So I had the new 6 inchers on the bench, checked the depth and my hole was .020" too deep. Oh shit- start checking other parts, all of them are .020" too deep.

Grabbed the depth mike, depth is right on. Took the calipers to the plate to check the depth bar. It's .020" short!

So beware friends-Mitutoyo Brazil is not Mitutoyo Japan.

The real Leigh · Apr 28, 2017

guest said:
So beware friends-Mitutoyo Brazil is not Mitutoyo Japan.

And a CofC is not an accuracy specification.

The CofC only tells you how close the readings on a particular instrument are to nominal.

It does not tell you what the tolerance envelope is for the product.

- Leigh

ewlsey · Apr 28, 2017

Some of the OD mics are made in Brazil also. I have not had issues other than all dial calipers, regardless of brand, are basically junk.

guest · Apr 28, 2017

The real Leigh said:
And a CofC is not an accuracy specification.

Of course.

But given the choice of a caliper that is within .0005 of nominal and one that is .0015", I know which one I would rather have on my workbench.

The tolerance (IIRC) is .002", and the cert only covers the jaws anyway.

I was just surprised to see the depth bar that far off and it still passed Mitutoyo's QC.

moonlight machine · Apr 29, 2017

guest said:
Of course.

But given the choice of a caliper that is within .0005 of nominal and one that is .0015", I know which one I would rather have on my workbench.

The tolerance (IIRC) is .002", and the cert only covers the jaws anyway.

I was just surprised to see the depth bar that far off and it still passed Mitutoyo's QC.

Why didn't you check it before using it?

guest · Apr 29, 2017

moonlight machine said:
Why didn't you check it before using it?

That's a good question. The answer is I didn't even think about it. I checked the jaws to jo blocks when I opened the box, but I didn't check the rod. I've never seen a brand new caliper this far off on the depth rod.

It was the very first use of the depth measurement that I discovered it was this way. Not like I was using it for actually making the setup or adjusting the offset, just a quick in-process check to make sure nothing had changed.

The job is a barfeed job that I run 1000 pcs at a time, 12L14. Once it's dropping good parts in the bucket, I go over to check every half hour or so- empty the bucket, check the coolant is good, chips not piling up, etc. I catch the last part out of the chute, caliper the length, the minor diameter of the thread, and the hole depth. Everything's good, I go back to the mill.

But you're right- new tool, I should have qualified it for what I was doing. It just caught me off guard- hell, this is Mitutoyo, not some China cheapo.

winger · Apr 29, 2017

Nice thing about digitals. Set it on a plate and zero it. My Mititoyo does not hold zero when I shut it off, so I am used to setting it anyway.
Upside is the battery last years.

Dave

Gordon B. Clarke · Apr 30, 2017

guest said:
That's a good question. The answer is I didn't even think about it. I checked the jaws to jo blocks when I opened the box, but I didn't check the rod. I've never seen a brand new caliper this far off on the depth rod.

Two things. I don't know where you think "Mitutoyo Japan" is made but certainly not always in Japan.

The accuracy of measurements with the inside jaws and depth rod of calipers have an extra "allowance" of 0.02mm (0.0008") above that for the external jaws. This isn't always stated in brochures and catalogues.

If your Mitutoyo caliper is no good chances are it isn't a genuine Mitutoyo no matter where it's made. Mitutoyo isn't cheap so if you are offered a cheap new Mitutoyo run.

guest · Apr 30, 2017

The 12" say "Made in Japan". The 8" say "Made in Brazil". The 6" say "Made in Brazil".

The 12" are nicer- smoother. The 8" are decent, but they don't have quite as nice a feel. Ditto the 6".

I bought them new, from a Mitutoyo authorized dealer, and paid new Mitutoyo price.

The depth rod was bad from the factory- the point of posting this thread was simply informational. Buying Mitutoyo today, you might not get what you expect. At least I didn't.

Gordon B. Clarke · May 1, 2017

guest said:
The 12" say "Made in Japan". The 8" say "Made in Brazil". The 6" say "Made in Brazil".

The 12" are nicer- smoother. The 8" are decent, but they don't have quite as nice a feel. Ditto the 6".

I bought them new, from a Mitutoyo authorized dealer, and paid new Mitutoyo price.

The depth rod was bad from the factory- the point of posting this thread was simply informational. Buying Mitutoyo today, you might not get what you expect. At least I didn't.

You've got me curious. Where does it say "Made in Japan" or "Made in Brazil"? I've not seen every caliper made but I don't recall ever seeing the country of origin on one of them. Usually on calipers there's only the logo.

Japanese companies are usually very meticulous about quality even when the product isn't made in Japan.

Mitutoyo :: Mitutoyo Corporation

The real Leigh · May 1, 2017

Gordon B. Clarke said:
Where does it say "Made in Japan" or "Made in Brazil"? I've not seen every caliper made but I don't recall ever seeing the country of origin on one of them. Usually on calipers there's only the logo.

Hi Gordon,

All of my Mitutoyo calipers have a label on the back with lots of information.

I have a 4" (500-195-20) and a 12" (500-193) in front of me at the moment.

They both have labels that say "Made in Japan", along with the Model Number, Serial Number, CE acceptance logo, the battery type (SR44), the US patent number, and operating instructions.

Where are the model and serial numbers on your calipers?

- Leigh

greif1 · May 1, 2017

I have calibrated a couple dozen Mitutoyo calipers over the years (checking all 4 measuring functions- OD, ID, step and depth) and have not seen one fail the basic +/- 0.001" tolerance.
In a quick search I was not able to find much on specs for calipers that called out different for various methods of measurement. The Mitutoyo lit just lists one tolerance.

Long Island Indicator says a little about it:
The depth rod which protrudes from the end of the calipers, as you open them up, is used to measure depths with a resolution of .001" and an accuracy of .001", at least for the first 4 inches of travel. Expect an accuracy of .0015" from 4 to 6 inches.

112 : Depth Measurement

Gordon B. Clarke · May 1, 2017

The real Leigh said:
Hi Gordon,

All of my Mitutoyo calipers have a label on the back with lots of information.

I have a 4" (500-195-20) and a 12" (500-193) in front of me at the moment.

They both have labels that say "Made in Japan", along with the Model Number, Serial Number, CE acceptance logo, the battery type (SR44), the US patent number, and operating instructions.

Where are the model and serial numbers on your calipers?

- Leigh

Hi Leigh,

I'm mostly used to handling digital calipers so the brand is almost always on the display housing. The serial number is also almost always on the rear side of the beam at the end. Even with Mitutoyo I don't remember ever seeing a model type on the caliper.

Maybe things are different in the USA?

Gordon

Gordon B. Clarke · May 1, 2017

greif1 said:
I have calibrated a couple dozen Mitutoyo calipers over the years (checking all 4 measuring functions- OD, ID, step and depth) and have not seen one fail the basic +/- 0.001" tolerance.
In a quick search I was not able to find much on specs for calipers that called out different for various methods of measurement. The Mitutoyo lit just lists one tolerance.

Long Island Indicator says a little about it:
The depth rod which protrudes from the end of the calipers, as you open them up, is used to measure depths with a resolution of .001" and an accuracy of .001", at least for the first 4 inches of travel. Expect an accuracy of .0015" from 4 to 6 inches.

112 : Depth Measurement

In all measuring equipment brochures and catalogues I've seen where there are calipers, the specification referenced (when referenced) is always DIN 862 and this is now identical to ISO 2012.

The extra allowance I mentioned of 0.02mm has nothing to do with use but only about how the caliper is finished. For the internal jaws to be just as accurate as the external jaws would require a razor sharp finish which obviously would soon wear. Measure a ring with a known diameter of max 0.2" or less and you'll probably notice more inaccuracy that measuring a large diameter. Similar circumstances apply too to the depth rod.

My Mitutoyo brochures and other brands reference DIN 862. Don't know what American brochures reference.

The real Leigh · May 1, 2017

Screwmachine · May 1, 2017

I have a Mit level I bought here in Switzerland that says made in Brazil. All my other stuff says made in Japan. Clearly.

guest · May 1, 2017

Gordon B. Clarke said:
You've got me curious. Where does it say "Made in Japan" or "Made in Brazil"?

Country of origin is on the box and also on the dial.

It's not legible in the pic I posted, but it's the line right below the "Shock Proof". Bottom line of print, right above the "50".

Gordon B. Clarke · May 1, 2017

Looks like I'm going to have to look closer next time I see a Mitutoyo.

Leigh, I've never seen a sticker like that on the back of any caliper.

Clive603 · May 1, 2017

Bought a new-new Brazil made Mitutoyo 8" or 200 mm dial caliper a couple of years back on a metric / imperial pair deal. One Brazil made one, one Japanese turned up. Not impressed with the feel on inspection when it arrived. A phone call to Mitutoyo UK verified that they were not going to take any responsibility for the device should it prove to be inaccurate. Fortunately a "used still in sealed packing" Mitutoyo Japan one turned up on that auction site the day after the pair arrived so I did the deal and moved the Brazil one on. Lost about £5 on the deal. Never bothered to properly check the accuracy of the Brazil one but it clearly wasn't well enough made to hold its accuracy to my standards for any length of time.

The Mitutoyo Japan replacement is OK but not as good as Mitutoyo reputation leads you to expect. Workday Mitutoyos of any type are over-rated anyway in my view and experience. As I recall matters comparing the Mitutoyo Brazil and Mitutoyo Japan devices they don't look to be from the same design office. Badge branding.

Clive

Modelman · May 1, 2017

That's a shame. Twenty or so years ago, Mitutoyo tried a low cost line, but had the good sense to give it a distinct line name, MyCal, as I recall, so it would not be confused with the quality items. Sounds like the message of the US business schools, "brand name as a profit center" has finally reached Japan.

It also might mean that Mitutoyo has decided that dial calipers are only bought by hobbyists anymore, so there will be NO quality dials from this point on.

Dennis

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