Starrett no.254 height gauge

ronan · Aug 4, 2016

I was watching a starrett no.254 E&M 12 inch/300mm height gauge on ebay, it didn't get any bids so i bid £30 and won. Its perfect apart from a little rust from handling on the top of the base. Its wonderful quality and weights a ton ! The way the height can be finly adjusted with the knob on top of the base is excellent too.

What i would like to know is how does the scribing bar clamp to the body of the moving section ? If i clamp it on the only way i see how, then the bottom of the clamp prevents the bottom of the scribing bar from resting on the surface table.

jdavi581 · Aug 4, 2016

I recently bought a starred 454 and it does not go all the way down. It looks like they had an offset scribing bar that was offset 1". From Looking at others on eBay.
Joe

Monarchist · Aug 4, 2016

ronan said:
I was watching a starrett no.254 E&M 12 inch/300mm height gauge on ebay, it didn't get any bids so i bid £30 and won. Its perfect apart from a little rust from handling on the top of the base. Its wonderful quality and weights a ton ! The way the height can be finly adjusted with the knob on top of the base is excellent too.

What i would like to know is how does the scribing bar clamp to the body of the moving section ? If i clamp it on the only way i see how, then the bottom of the clamp prevents the bottom of the scribing bar from resting on the surface table.

I must have a dozen scribing bars. Keep buying them in hopes that eventually, all my many HG's will have at least one that Just Fits.

ALL are doglegged. Straight ones are 'too easy'. I've always used a HSS blank with a light grind.

Bill

The real Leigh · Aug 5, 2016

ronan said:
What i would like to know is how does the scribing bar clamp to the body of the moving section ? If i clamp it on the only way i see how, then the bottom of the clamp prevents the bottom of the scribing bar from resting on the surface table.

That's correct.

If you think about it, the reference (upper) surface of the scriber MUST be in intimate contact with the reference (lower) surface of the gage arm. That arm surface is the point to which all height measurements are made.

Since the scriber has a finite thickness, as does the clamp that holds it, the lowest scribe line is obviously some distance above the plate.

- Leigh

Monarchist · Aug 5, 2016

The real Leigh said:
...as does the clamp that holds it, the lowest scribe line is obviously some distance above the plate.

Hence the prevalence of dog-legs on garden-variety verniers and such. To clear the clamp.

Anyone more SERIOUS about it, there are still vintage Cadillac Gage Pla-Chek, B&S, and similar uber-uber height-setters and scriber holder goods around, used.

Also typically UN calibrated in 20 to 40 years, so.. p'raps as much nostalgia as daily utility, but there we are..

Bill

johnoder · Aug 5, 2016

In the process of cleaning out Mitchell Machinery (whose owner had passed) about twenty years ago, I was offered a pair of 26" Pla-Cheks - free. Since the truck was full, I passed.

Ah - regret thru the ages

Monarchist · Aug 5, 2016

johnoder said:
In the process of cleaning out Mitchell Machinery (whose owner had passed) about twenty years ago, I was offered a pair of 26" Pla-Cheks - free. Since the truck was full, I passed.

Ah - regret thru the ages

"Free" usually escapes. Utility, not so much. Never too late...

I have several tracking on 'the ordinary'. Thanks for reminding me a PAIR can have a utility above and beyond.

ronan · Aug 5, 2016

I bought the gauge for next to nothing and it is only for home use. Searching on the web reveals little about this particular model, the modern ones seem to be more lightly built. The primary use i would use the thing for is scribing lines and marking out, so i would like the scriber edge not to be off the surface table when the vernier is at zero. Maybe i can make one up.

Monarchist · Aug 5, 2016

ronan said:
I bought the gauge for next to nothing and it is only for home use. Searching on the web reveals little about this particular model, the modern ones seem to be more lightly built. The primary use i would use the thing for is scribing lines and marking out, so i would like the scriber edge not to be off the surface table when the vernier is at zero. Maybe i can make one up.

"Revenoo" use, buy a better one that isn't damaged or missing parts.

Making one to a precise fit is as good a 'project' as any other, hobby-wise.

Otherwise, add whatever fits 'close enough' and do the offset from zero with grade-school math and a sharpie note on a sticker.

Works for me. Most of the time there's a dial-indicator on the jaw instead of a scriber anyway.

Bill

The real Leigh · Aug 5, 2016

ronan said:
i would like the scriber edge not to be off the surface table when the vernier is at zero. Maybe i can make one up.

Not physically possible.
The upper surface of the scriber must be in tight contact with the bottom of the height gage bar. That's the calibration point of the instrument.

The scriber has a finite thickness. That must by definition project below the reference surface. Then there's the clamp to hold them together.

- Leigh

Atomkinder · Aug 5, 2016

I used these in school. They work just fine for layout work.

Monarchist · Aug 5, 2016

The real Leigh said:
Not physically possible.

Dunno if that is true for this particular Starrett-wotever or not. I've never been fond enough of the cheap stuff to own but a rare few pieces of their clan.

It is certainly NOT the case with plenty of HG specifically made so the shoe and working edge of the scriber is on the deck when the bar is at zero. And there are adjustments to home it there as need arises.

That's the whole POINT of working relative to a reference datum, and the instrument would be a great deal less useful were it otherwise.

Are ye being intentionally obtuse? Or just haven't much worked off a surface or layout plate?

Wadyyah think that dogleg on Atomkinder's photo is all about?

Bill

The real Leigh · Aug 5, 2016

Monarchist said:
Are ye being intentionally obtuse? Or just haven't much worked off a surface or layout plate?

Hi Bill,

I'm a journeyman tool & die maker with extensive experience in precision measurement.

Monarchist said:
Wadyyah think that dogleg on Atomkinder's photo is all about?

The dogleg is certainly a good solution.
But the dogleg itself is a component that must be cal'd and certified if the assembly is to be used for any traceable measurements.

That item is not a standard part of the Starrett 254 that's the subject of this thread.
It may be available as an accessory, but it's not included with the base product.

- Leigh

Monarchist · Aug 5, 2016

The real Leigh said:
Hi Bill,

I'm a journeyman tool & die maker with extensive experience in precision measurement.

The dogleg is certainly a good solution.
But the dogleg itself is a component that must be cal'd and certified if the assembly is to be used for any traceable measurements.

That item is not a standard part of the Starrett 254 that's the subject of this thread.
It may be available as an accessory, but it's not included with the base product.

- Leigh

OK. 'intentionally obtuse' fits best, then. You know quite well the dogleg is basically 'standard' as the real-world WORKPLACE solution, brand or sub-model of HG Mother-Ship immaterial.

Actually, if it does NOT ship with one, it is either odd-man-out, or wasn't intended for the general-purpose of layout to begin with. Does that SKU ship with dial-indicator adapter, perchance?

Near-as-dammit useless if it has neither.

Bill

The real Leigh · Aug 5, 2016

Monarchist said:
You know quite well the dogleg is basically 'standard' as the real-world WORKPLACE solution, brand or sub-model of HG Mother-Ship immaterial.

This thread is about a very specific instrument, not about height gages in general.

Monarchist said:
Actually, if it does NOT ship with one, it is either odd-man-out, or wasn't intended for the general-purpose of layout to begin with. Does that SKU ship with dial-indicator adapter, perchance?

Given that the 254 sells for over $2000, apparently Starrett thinks it's a real tool.

Perhaps they can be forgiven for not soliciting your opinion.

- Leigh

Monarchist · Aug 5, 2016

ronan said:
I was watching a starrett no.254 E&M 12 inch/300mm height gauge on ebay, it didn't get any bids so i bid £30 and won. Its perfect apart from a little rust from handling on the top of the base. Its wonderful quality and weights a ton ! The way the height can be finly adjusted with the knob on top of the base is excellent too.

What i would like to know is how does the scribing bar clamp to the body of the moving section ? If i clamp it on the only way i see how, then the bottom of the clamp prevents the bottom of the scribing bar from resting on the surface table.

Post the best measurement you can accomplish of the 'gap' you are trying to bridge, bottom surface of the bar to surface plate, scale at zero.

One or more of us more interested in solving a problem than creating one to jaw about for the next three weeks may have a spare dogleg close enough that a simple flat spacer ELSE some careful grinding can make the item you purchased actually USEFUL for the purpose you cited.

Making one from scratch is not as easy as it looks. Flatness and parallelism challenges as well as uber-precision. Also maintainability. The working edge doesn't last forever without periodic attention.

Modifying is easier. Orphans are cheap enough, and one has to find some sort of suitable steel, anyway

Bill

Cole2534 · Jan 10, 2017

Does the nook in the front of the 254's base serve a purpose?

Sent from my LG-UK495 using Tapatalk

SVE Performance · Jan 10, 2017

I believe you will find that the bottom of the gauge will rest on the surface when the gauge reads "0" When using the tool to mark work adding the scriber and clamp you install the scriber with the marking edge up against the reference surface which allows you to mark from the reference surface without having to worry about the thickness of the scriber. Please note the orientation of the scriber in the picture of the gauge earlier in the thread. Bill

Starrett no.254 height gauge

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