surface plate tools to oil or not to oil

I have a nice B&S grade A granite surface plate, I also have a Mitutoyo gage with a 0.0001 indicator in it for checking surfaces. I clean the surface plate with Starrett surface plate cleaner, it has a cover on it when not in use, and I usually just clean the bottom of my height gage with the palm of my hand. The problem is I cant keep the height gage floating like it should, after a little use it starts to stick in spots and I clean the plate again. Should I put a bit of oil on the bottom of the gage? I always thought it should be clean and dry but I cant keep it from getting sticky on the surface plate surface. I cannot find any recommendations anyplace I have looked and I am hoping I dont get both answers...


Charles

I would suggest wiping the bottom of the surface gauge with a dry rag rather than your hand and also wiping any dust off the table with a dry rag.


Oiling surface gauges, height gauges etc. is not wanted when in use, but can be useful between uses if the humidity in the shop is greater than 40%.

Biggest problem I have with my surface table is remembering to clean the blue off it before using a surface gauge or similar on it.

CBlair said:

I have a nice B&S grade A granite surface plate, I also have a Mitutoyo gage with a 0.0001 indicator in it for checking surfaces. I clean the surface plate with Starrett surface plate cleaner, it has a cover on it when not in use, and I usually just clean the bottom of my height gage with the palm of my hand. The problem is I cant keep the height gage floating like it should, after a little use it starts to stick in spots and I clean the plate again. Should I put a bit of oil on the bottom of the gage? I always thought it should be clean and dry but I cant keep it from getting sticky on the surface plate surface. I cannot find any recommendations anyplace I have looked and I am hoping I dont get both answers...

Charles

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My recommendation would be :- NEVER use oil on a granite table. Once in a while it can be wiped with a mild dish washing fluid, then wiped with clean water and dried with a clean, dry cloth.

If something "sticks" moving across a granite table then it's cleaning time for both equipment and table.

Gordon

We always used liquid hand soap, spread and wiped until dry with a new wiping cloth. Hight gauges would just float like they were on air................bob

Yea I just cant understand why it can float great for 15 min but then it just starts to stick while you move it around and only does it in spots. Slide, stick, slide...clean works good for a while then starts it again someplace else on the table...kind of weird.

I did take some 2000 grit paper and clean the bottom of the gage and it does slide better now...just wondering if I was missing something simple.

Charles

I find a similar problem myself. I think the main culprit is the workpieces I bring in. The grinite is clean and the height gage is clean, but even a clean job brought into the inspection room can bring contaminants, so then I clean again and all is well. I also think dust and coolant mist from the machines can make it into the room while the door is open. I worked at a shop where the inspection room was at positive pressure to prevent contaminants entering. Also parts going in there went through a strict cleaning process. The same shop was was quite strict on how the granite was cleaned, water was fobidden as granite can absorb it and can potentially affect the dimensional stabilty of the plate/table

I'm ashamed to say that when I first got a pair of 10"x2"x1" granite parallels, I had an great fun for an hour just floating them across my 3'x4' surface table. After cleaning everything, they would float from one side to the other purely on a film of air

We've always used Dykem Remover. Dries instantly, and leaves no residue. Just don't leave the container open for long periods of time as it evaporates very quickly!

Works great on gage blocks as well.

Best Regards,
Russ

ADFToolmaker said:

I also think dust and coolant mist from the machines can make it into the room while the door is open. I worked at a shop where the inspection room was at positive pressure to prevent contaminants entering.

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If it is possible to have the granite table (or any time accurate measurement is required) in a suitable size room positive pressure is always #1. In a good calibration facility it's regarded as a MUST. Plus of course temperature and humidity control.

If out in the open on a shop floor then keep it away from where their is most dust flying around.

Re having "fun". Mine has always been (especially on a very large granite table) is dropping a ½" steel ball and watching how long it takes before it stops bouncing It's also interesting to see if it moves away from the point of impact.

Gordon B. Clarke said:

If it is possible to have the granite table (or any time accurate measurement is required) in a suitable size room positive pressure is always #1. In a good calibration facility it's regarded as a MUST. Plus of course temperature and humidity control.

If out in the open on a shop floor then keep it away from where their is most dust flying around.

Re having "fun". Mine has always been (especially on a very large granite table) is dropping a ½" steel ball and watching how long it takes before it stops bouncing It's also interesting to see if it moves away from the point of impact.

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If you read my first post I mention that when not used they are covered, and of course I check them for dust before use. Of course still not exactly sure why this one acts the way it does but I am satisfied I am not doing anything wrong myself. Perhaps the surface needs to be freshened up, it is pretty old and although it looks and feels perfect to me perhaps it isnt quite right. Never actually worked with a new surface plate before and not sure what to compare it to. The other smaller plate I have is shinier than the one that is giving me trouble and perhaps that is the problem?

Oh well I am not worried about it, I was just asking to make sure I wasnt doing anything different than anyone else.

Charles

CBlair said:

If you read my first post I mention that when not used they are covered, and of course I check them for dust before use. Of course still not exactly sure why this one acts the way it does but I am satisfied I am not doing anything wrong myself. Perhaps the surface needs to be freshened up, it is pretty old and although it looks and feels perfect to me perhaps it isnt quite right. Never actually worked with a new surface plate before and not sure what to compare it to. The other smaller plate I have is shinier than the one that is giving me trouble and perhaps that is the problem?

Oh well I am not worried about it, I was just asking to make sure I wasnt doing anything different than anyone else.

Charles

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I wasn't criticizing you - just offering (as all others) general advice. Still now I am asking - how do you "check for dust"? Blowing on a granite table or just running a cloth over it won't help. To me you have something "icky" on your table that needs removed. Anyone used chewing gum to hold anything?

Bottom line. If you don't clean it regularly as suggested by most then you are doing things differently

Gordon

Over the years I've been exposed to all sorts of variations to achieve a clean plate. The best I found was to make a loose paste of Bon Ami (NOT Ajax or Comet) and regular grocery store alcohol and a firm hand with a clean rag.

Clean your plate your way, then do the above on 1/2 and notice the difference.

soft abrasive

FranH said:

Over the years I've been exposed to all sorts of variations to achieve a clean plate. The best I found was to make a loose paste of Bon Ami (NOT Ajax or Comet) and regular grocery store alcohol and a firm hand with a clean rag.

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bonami is a soft abrasive cleanser with feldspar or similar, it will not scratch hard metal but is abrasive enough that we used it to clean micron surfaces with minimal if any damage.
.
some silicone release agent spray oils are extremely thin. we used for making rubber molds of metal parts. if a minimum amount is used you can often see finger prints that were on the metal molded on the rubber. not sure how thick a finger print is, but it can't be much.
.
liberty polish is a micron abrasive polish. it is abrasive, but is so fine it will eventually put a mirror finish on metal parts. it has ammonia mixed in as a cleaning agent so it does give off some fumes when first applied.

I am sure there are all kinds of secret recipes for surface plate cleaners... As I got this thing second hand there is no telling what has been used on it in the past. I have never used anything but Starrett surface plate cleaner. Weird how you can clean it and everything runs fine but then after a short time the surface gets sticky but only in places. Perhaps there is something soaked in that I cant see or otherwise tell is there. My smaller plate doesnt exhibit this phenomenon and it is treated the same way so I can assume that either the surface needs a touch up or as suggested perhaps a more aggressive cleaning is needed.

I have been using this thing like this for several years and it never really bothered me until yesterday, just kind of got on my nerves.

Charles

Hi Charles:
I've always found that the plate gets sticky in spots because I've touched it; usually with the heel of my palm to stabilize something I was running under an indicator point.
Other culprits are Varsol or EDM oil or coolant residues on the job that I've just placed on the plate.

My magic solution is Windex on a wipe rag; quick, cheap and very effective.
No oiling the plate or the tools unless you want to spend time cleaning it all off again; it'll make your stiction problem worse not better.
Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix – Design & Innovation - home
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

Never tried it but am wondering if the "new" nano liquids for glass etc. could be used after cleaning a granite table?

One helpful hint (besides not introducing oil to your surface plate) is to use a clean draftsman's brush. Use a liquid surface plate cleaner, then dry the plate until your towel comes back clean. Sometimes it can take several passes. Then use a horsehair brush to take off every little speck of dust. You can use that brush for quite a while before it is necessary to clean it. When it's time to clean the brush dry shop air will do the job.

Well I got some interesting information and advice on this surface plate. As I was beginning to suspect the cleaning isnt the issue the stone is likely worn in spots and need to be reconditioned. The way it was described to me made sense so I will try and write it that way. The surface plate has a slight sheen to the surface with light shining from the side but it is otherwise matte when looked at straight on. I can just make out some difference in the surface finish in about the same places the height gage is sticking. The slightly Matte surface is sort of like scraping but microscopically small where you have high and low spots. The tools slide on the high spots and have less drag, as the surface starts to wear the high spots are worn down to the low spots and the friction increases.

The problem I am having is that when sliding the tool along the surface it is hitting one of these worn spots and the extra friction is causing the tool to drag and sometimes skip. The same tools on my other plate have none of these problems. I was told by a company that makes surface plate repairs and calibrations that they could fix the plate on site for $300-$400 next time they are in the area.

One interesting fact they did tell me was that the Starrett surface plate cleaner can sometimes leave a soapy film on the top of the plate and they recommended cleaning it with just water every third time I clean the plate to help remove any accumulation of the soap. I am a bit surprised to hear this but I did clean it with just hot water and surprisingly enough it did improve the overall characteristics of the plate, but I still had the same wear problem of course.

Charles

I also have had good luck with Windex, I also use rubbing alchuol (my spelling sucks) and acid-tone. Use a white cloth and keep wiping it until the cloth stays white. If your not in a clean room with positive air pressure your plate is getting fine dirt on it. Your hair, lint from your clothes, crud floating in the air. A simple experiment. clean your plate, wipe with your hand last, as you know, but for others who don't ..You can feel the dirt with your hand and not with a rag or brush. Us "old-timers" were strictly taught this by our peers and I see so many nowadays who use a red rag...bad news...But clean the plate and walk away for 15 min and go back and wipe your hand on the plate and you will feel dirt and be surprised as hell that it floated there. Another thing you hand is heating the surface gage. My Dad use to put phenolic pads on his surface gage when he was scraping jig bores and testing and testing in .00005" and .0001"

Richard King said:

I also have had good luck with Windex, I also use rubbing alchuol (my spelling sucks) and acid-tone. Use a white cloth and keep wiping it until the cloth stays white. If your not in a clean room with positive air pressure your plate is getting fine dirt on it. Your hair, lint from your clothes, crud floating in the air. A simple experiment. clean your plate, wipe with your hand last, as you know, but for others who don't ..You can feel the dirt with your hand and not with a rag or brush. Us "old-timers" were strictly taught this by our peers and I see so many nowadays who use a red rag...bad news...But clean the plate and walk away for 15 min and go back and wipe your hand on the plate and you will feel dirt and be surprised as hell that it floated there. Another thing you hand is heating the surface gage. My Dad use to put phenolic pads on his surface gage when he was scraping jig bores and testing and testing in .00005" and .0001"

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Richard, I opened this thread only because your contribution was noted as the last entry.

I am truly appreciative when you contribute, therefore...

alcohol
acetone

Steve