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02-16-2008, 03:34 PM #1
10EE I/m Gearbox Metric Threading
The I/m gearbox may appear to be an important factor in one's shop.
However, only sixteen of the twenty-three conventional and model maker's metric pitches are provided by this box:
0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1.0, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.0, 5.5, and 6.0mm
plus many nonstandard metric pitches above and below those mentioned (see image, below).
Not provided by this box are:
0.3, 0.35, 0.4, 0.45, 0.6, 0.7, and 0.8mm
and, by extension, 0.9 and 1.2mm.
The square dial metric threading accessory provides all twenty-three conventional and model maker's metric pitches, and many others.
The I/m box certainly is a sexy feature, but it will not satisfy all metric threading needs.
02-16-2008, 04:18 PM #2
All I/M threads are possible on the I/M box by changing two gears on the end train. I so far have not needed to do it.
02-16-2008, 04:54 PM #3
"All I/M threads are possible on the I/M box by changing two gears on the end train."
OK, then we're back to Square One, where the end gears have to be changed to get the (metric) pitches we really need.
What the I/m gearbox does give us is 16 of the 23 conventional and model maker's metric pitches, plus 44 metric pitches which are completely useless to us, like 0.4366... millimeters (6 repeated to infinity).
The 3, 3-1/2, 4, 4-1/2, 5 and 5-1/2 tpi settings (and their multiples by 2) of the I/m box give those 16 usable metric pitches, but the 3-1/4, 3-3/8, 3-3/4 and 5-3/4 tpi settings (and their multiples by 2) give no useful metric pitches at all, while most of the multiples by 2 of the 3, 3-1/2, 4, 4-1/2, 5 and 5-1/2 tpi settings also give no useful metric pitches.
I'm not bad-mouthing the I/m box, just reciting its limitations.
And, given those limitations, and the reality that one is going to have to employ end gears, anyway, the sexiness factor of the I/m box is somewhat reduced.
02-16-2008, 05:17 PM #4
I dont know about that, I have not needed to cut anything that is not on the chart. I cut alot of metric threads.
Its stated in the brochure with the blue lathe on the cover, that the I/M will cut all ISO, modular and metric threads not on the chart "within the range of the box" by changing two gears. I have a few extra gears that came with my machine, havnt needed to use them so far.
Yes, you are in the same deal of having to fiddle with the end gears if the thread is not on the chart.
More spendy than sexy, but sexy does mean spendy in my experience.
02-16-2008, 07:49 PM #5
Well, at least for 16/23 ... 69.56 percent ... of the customary and model maker's metric pitches, the I/m box is an immediately available solution.
I would say if you are doing production threading of coarse metric threads, the I/m box will do close to 100 percent of all your needs.
However, if you are in the 30.47 percent minority, where finer pitches are required, such as model making, or toolroom use, you might be better-off ... financially, anyway ... with the metric threading accessory kit, including its 60/127 transposer.
And, if you are in the round dial crowd, the 63 transposer is even more attractive, for most of the pitches.
02-16-2008, 08:19 PM #6
I'd like an I/M box because of the PITA of switching from Metric to Imperial. With the transposer in use for metric, I didn't want to remove it to cut a 16 tpi, so figured that close was good enough and set the box to 13 1/2 with the gear installed worked out very close to 16. much rather to have flipped a lever to IMP. I find myself making metric threads on parts that have Imp parts, a stop on an air valve is now 3mm .75 instead of 4-40.
The moment I reinstall the Imp thread gear I'll get two jobs what must have metric threads, and no die that matches.
02-16-2008, 08:33 PM #7
"I find myself making metric threads on parts that have Imp parts"
My own shop's standard, and the same at the large mainframe computer manufacturer at which I was formerly employed, reworked designs were done in their original standard: Imperial on Imperial, metric on metric; whereas, new designs were almost always metric, except where MIL-Spec components were a functional part of the design, in which those nominally metric-only designs were permitted to include Imperial-dimensioned components, such as 4-40 UNC threads on D-Subminiature connectors and 0.100"x0.100" gridded 0.25" square pinned headers.
02-16-2008, 08:41 PM #8
Tom, I ran into the same and finally broke down and got an I/M EE. The only other lathe we have capable of cutting metric is a L&S Powerturn, it takes maybe an hour to switch out the gears and an hour to put it back.
The I/M EE about half a minute moving two levers and a knob.
Peter, what I work on is mostly related to import machinery, bikes and ect. Usually just one off.
02-16-2008, 09:12 PM #9
"The I/M EE about half a minute moving two levers and a knob."
I hear you, Donie. Believe me, I do.
But at a $10,000 premium, minimum?
I have a circa 1939 Hardinge TL (AKA, T-10) for which I intend to make metric threading accessories.
It will become my primary metric threading machine, although I have an Imperial/metric Logan 10 x 24, which I now mainly use for grunt work.
The beauty of the Hardinge, which is actually a defect in its design when viewed from another perspective, is this: if a banjo is mounted, then the "10 change" portion of the box, which is optimized for Imperial, is automagically disabled, while the "3 change" portion remains (the "3 change" is *1, *2 and *4, and which is obviously useful in metric as well as Imperial).
This makes conversion from Imperial to metric as simple as mounting the banjo, as no banjo automagically selects Imperial, whereas mounting the banjo automagically selects whatever standard (10 tpi Imperial, or metric) which is on that banjo.
02-16-2008, 10:23 PM #10
Yikes Peter! That is true, I took a $15000 blow on the I/M EE. I had to weigh out the available options. With at the time a good Hardinge at over 20, and the tooling I already had on hand for the old EE, I went forward with the I/M EE.
There are so many ups and downs between both, it seemed staying with Monarch was the right one for me. I have no regrets, even though the drive rebuild was hard for me, I could not have done it without you and the other cult members, God bless you all.
02-16-2008, 10:42 PM #11
"I have no regrets, even though the drive rebuild was hard for me, I could not have done it without you and the other cult members, God bless you all."
You're most welcome, Donie.
Perhaps we need a "Ten Step Program" for former, current, and prospective Ten-EE owners. Ten EasEy steps :-) .
Is there another specific machine out there, with the possible exception of Myford (LOL!) which has such a cult following?
TheOldCar liked this post
02-17-2008, 04:49 AM #12And, if you are in the round dial crowd, the 63 transposer is even more attractive, for most of the pitches.
I used it today for 0.5 mm pitch threads, although I ran into problems with tool height or something, getting 3mm stainless to thread was a bitch. I'm going to try again with an optical center finder to get the cutter height set right.
Setting up the lathe for 0.5mm took about 10 min. I had to remove the 48 tooth gear on the box stud, replace it with the 53, and adjust one idler gear for gear lash. And set the gearbox for 23tpi.
02-17-2008, 06:31 AM #13
Correct, Dave ... 63 is for square dial, 53 is for round dial.