10EE Saddle Wear? Please tell me it is supposed to be like this

I am trying not to be alarmist, given all the other stuff I am working on with this machine. So, please tell me that 10EE saddles are made like this on purpose.

Please? Pretty please? With a cherry on top?

The area of concern is directly in front of, and behind the web that connects the front to the rear. The bearing surface area. Consisting of approximately 5" or 6" in width. This area is extremely noticeably lower ( higher ? ) than the rest of the ways. probably somewhere in the order of .040". See pictures. It is the dark area on the rear section, and on the front section one can make out the bright spot that is basically like a large chamfer, leading into the relieved area. It is directly in line with the rear one, in width.

The center of the ways are relieved so they don't rock after a little wear. This is normal.

DavidScott said:

The center of the ways are relieved so they don't rock after a little wear. This is normal.

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I can breathe now??? ( I might have held my breath just a little ... ) Come here DavidScott... I could just kiss you... But seriously - Thank you.

Yes, breathe, but I don't see any relief on your V way, looks like it has a bit of wear. Not that I really know anything, just parroting what I have read of Richard's posts.

DavidScott said:

Yes, breathe, but I don't see any relief on your V way, looks like it has a bit of wear. Not that I really know anything, just parroting what I have read of Richard's posts.

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I do not one bit doubt that it has some wear. But what do you mean by "relief"? Do you mean the bottoms ( apex ) of the Vee? If so, then yes, there is still relief. The tops of the Vee on the bed do not hit the top of the Vee of the saddle. There is a gap, while both sides touch.

What I mean by "relief" is the saddle should not contact the V ways the entire length of it. If memory serves the center 50% should be relieved so there is no contact. I think this rule applies to any solid way whether it is a mill, lathe, grinder, etc.

Do what?....... Lemme check my Connelly's on that. Where is Richard King? Look at OKBill's saddle in his thread, I see no relief like that on his , and it looks like a relatively? low hours machine. This looks like somebody's fix.

Well, it does have some wear... Not sure what to do about it for the moment. Looking at my options.

Pretty good lip or ridge along the inner Vee. Also on the inner side of the rear flat. Easy to see the wear once it was clean simply for the missing oil grooves.

I'll be the asshole here. Although I thought mine was bad, this one is close. Mine hadn't worn clean part of the oil grooves, and those are pretty deep. But it is fixable. This needs a bed regrind and turcite/ Moglice (my preference) on the saddle. I don't think you'd be happy with it any other way.

I am wondering how to qualify / inspect the ways with any certainty. If the ways are reasonably good, I would be okay with turciting the saddle and fitting back to the base... Have a call out to Cash about it now.

It is not supposed to be touching on the tailstock flat way either, but they usually are after a bit of wear sets in.

RC99 is correct - yours has a oil groove in that spot. I seem to remember somone else posting saddl info that had the oil groove there as well. Monarch has confirmed that there should be space there (I don't know where that thread is). Simple matter to skim cut a bit off there to get clearance - the other wear looks like it needs to be addressed first.

Paul

One thing you can do right off the top of my head, is clean the underside of the flatway on the bed( where the anti-lift saddle bearings run) and take a mic and measure the thickness of the flatway to the underside of the bed. Starting at the very end, which should be relatively unworn( we hope) and work your way forward taking notes. At least you can plot the wear on the flatways. It would be nice to secure a King-Way setup and a test bar.

Before you go the Turcite route, or whatever, why don't you get the old girl running as see how she performs. I bet you'll be surprised. Mine has a lot of wear on the underside of the saddle and is down on the tailstock ways, yet meets my needs just fine. I have to stay away from the last inch of carriage travel on the headstock end, but otherwise it's OK. But I don't make aerospace parts either.

There's always the quick-and-dirty overhaul that has shown up on more than one machine: machine 0.040" off the bottom of the saddle, drop the right leadscrew / feed-rod bracket by 0.040" and "Bob's your Uncle", as they say down under. I'm not saying that's the ideal way to go, but it can save an otherwise good machine from the scrap yard when there isn't the time or resources to grind/scrape the bed and build up the saddle.

Didn't Richard King or someone offer to come and overhaul machines? ( Maybe it was to get out of the cold country during the winter, I forget.)

Cal

Thank you for the input, boys. For now, this is The Plan™ -

I am going to continue progressing with the cleanup, repair/replacement of the small items, and the painting of the whole kit. It has been pointed out by others likely more wise than I, that it would be a prudent move to put it back together and simply see how it cuts.

Cash is going to stop by in a few weeks and take a look at everything. I would need to do all of this for him anyway. I could not give him a filthy lathe and expect him to perform his magic. Aside from all the other reasons not to do so, it is simply disrespectful and inconsiderate. He's a good friend and I am thankful for his even being willing to come over and give me his insights.

Of course, it is likely going to cost me more than the price of the work. It is likely that it will cost me a number of breakfasts at Webb's. Sounds innocuous enough, but that man can EAT. I don't know how he keeps his girlish figure.

I have sent parts lists to a few people that are selling parts, as well as to Monarch. Everyone got the same list. I'll see where that goes.

I have the taper attachment and saddle cleaned and blasted now, ready for paint. I need to service the oiling lines on the saddle first. Has anyone ever considered the modern plastic lines for replacements? Some of those copper lines look quite the treat...

I have to get the apron apart next. I found several things deficient in there. I know... I know... shocker.
The pinion gear for the rack is worn pretty well. As well, the gear that the cross slide's clutch gear engages ( that is driven by the larger gear in between it and the handwheel's gear ) seems to be accounting for the odd noise that the handwheel's operation makes. It is also worn, too. As well, the handwheel's hub is worn and sloppy on the shaft, and the clutch dog notches are worn, also. Half nuts look serviceable, but worn.

More later.

I am enjoying this and the related threads. Not only did you manage to get the machine with the help of other forum members, something which is tricky enough to pull off on its own, but you're not wasting any time digging in and getting it sorted. Very cool.

mwr said:

I am enjoying this and the related threads. Not only did you manage to get the machine with the help of other forum members, something which is tricky enough to pull off on its own, but you're not wasting any time digging in and getting it sorted. Very cool.

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Thanks, but there is nothing to it, actually. Just OCD and coffee abuse.

Cal Haines said:

...I have to stay away from the last inch of carriage travel on the headstock end, but otherwise it's OK. But I don't make aerospace parts either.

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I'm a long way from being a 10EE expert but I ran a war-surplus one for about ten years that turned taper pretty bad at the head end. The old-timers all thought it must have fallen off a truck at some point and got bent but I think it was the oil lines plugged up for years. Monarch used restrictors in those tubes on a lot of lathes and I have always believed that was a bit of overengineering. How can you have too much oil on the ways? Fine when it's new and kept clean but eventually you get cast iron wear particles that those restricted lines won't allow enough pressure or volume to flush out. That carriage has been run dry for a long, long time.

ZK,
I'm not sure mine is any better than yours, but you can have it for the cost of shipping if you want it.
Hope the pictures help. Let me know if you want any more. The lube related parts are not on it anymore.

Did you get my email about the other parts you are looking for?

This is probably a useless comment, but one thing I've always wondered about is the unusually long saddle wings on a 10EE. Yes, it is obviously intended to broaden the base of alignment and increase the overall bearing, and prevent the ways from wearing locally. But they seem a bit slender to be entirely free of deflection, hence the ocean-wave wear pattern you see on so many of them. They would probably be just as effective if they were shorter. Or thicker. Or if the cross-slide bridge were wider.

But here I am kicking tires on a machine that over more than half a century's service earned the favorite place in the hearts of a million machinists. Maybe all it ever needed was a better oil supply.JMO