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10EE Teardown, Inspection and Return to Service

OK_Bill

Aluminum
Joined
May 27, 2015
Location
OKC
So my "new" 1958 square dial 10EE is safely sitting in my shop. It was last in service at least 15 years ago. Now the fun begins!

For starters, I'd like to get the old girl up and running after a good bath, inspection as necessary and recommended maintenance.

Pics were posted in a previous thread: Going to look at a 10EE

Question: what would y'all suggest be done to return a machine to service that's been down for a while? I'm thinking general clean-up, belt replacement, oil & filter change, new way wipers ... what else? Would you think it a good idea to take the apron upper half off to inspect inside and to verify apron pump operation? Need to verify the machine is wired for 230, not 460. Need to somehow verify that...


What else?


edit: The machine came with a serial number specific manual from Monarch, so I have that. All tubes were removed and boxed in bubble wrap by the previous owner, so they're not installed.
 
Suggest you also disassemble the tailstock. A lot of issues can be hidden inside the tailstock, especially the bushings at front and back, but also the hardened "shoes" that make contact when the tailstock is tightened. I've seen several lathes with fractured shoes. And of course replace all the wipers, including the wipers for the tailstock ram and the wipers for the ball bearing gibs on the saddle. And while the saddle is out, check out the bijur check valves and make sure that all are the correct parts (often they are not) and that they are working.

Before you remove the saddle check it for alignment (is it perpendicular to the lathe axis, does it have wear in the middle), so that you can plan whether or not to scrape the cross slide ways.

-Dave
 
Thx Cal - I'll study that.

As for checking the saddle alignment - ok I'll check that but how in the world could it not be perpendicular to the ways? I think I'm not picturing this correctly.

Tail stock: wilco.

Today I got the machine off the trailer and had a very good look at everything. Wow. What they did in 1958! Pretty impressively built and designed.

I mic'ed the back flat way again in several places and could only find at most 1/10 of a thou of wear. Then with a dial fixed to the saddle, I indicated the front flat way to see if there'd be any differential wear between the two with movement - and there's nothing. Not a tenth - so overall great condition on this Monarch EE!

All oil sump sight glasses do show oil in them, but I probably want to drain, maybe flush and refill those. What do you guys like to use in for those? I did read the manual, but am guessing things have changed since 1958.

I'll be putting up a good number of high-res pictures in a Google album for all to see... next week. Thanks MUCH for the replies. Keep em coming!

Bill
 
Good going! Love those measurements, you're light years ahead of many starting with one of these old machines.

What Dave was trying impart is that a worn cross slide can indeed be out of square with the headstock axis during at least some part of its travel. It can be measured in a lathe survey. If you don't know about it it probably won't hurt you judging from your bed numbers.

Here's information about lubricants for your 10EE, the single headstock sight glass info pertains to your lathe.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/what-oil-229279/

Many sources sell 5 gallons as the minimum amount. I haven't checked lately but McMaster-Carr had 1 gallon units the last time I looked.

Maintenance issues not already mentioned are the rolling element bearings supporting the lead screw and feed rod ends at the tailstock end of the lathe. If the lube is original 1958 issue it's not grease anymore. Inspect, clean and re-lubricate or replace at high cost.

Another set of four bearings support the two headstock drive belt idlers. They run at several times spindle speed and they're cheap. See a "sticky" posted in this forum about a good source for them. Inspect and replace as needed. They are frequently a source of noise. Did I mention they're cheap? :D

I'm another vote to drop the apron, remove the saddle, disassemble the tailstock, inspect everything. It's not as daunting as it might sound. Make sure the carriage lube system is working perfectly, get the old crapola out. You'll most likely be amazed at the amount of it as you remove the apron and saddle.
 
Wow - what a wealth of information! Thanks so so much Dave and Harry. I'll look into what a lathe survey is. Harry, one of the first threads I read with interest here on the Monarch forum was your "wreck" piece. What an effort, proving once again that effort = results. Super duper fantastic work there.

I'm prepping my shop to do the apron/saddle and tailstock surgery.

Dave, you were spot-on about the headstock drive belt bearings. Many of them are shot. So thx for the pointer on the cheap replacements!

Great advice here - MUCH appreciated.
 
I found that the Vee grooves for the drive belts had significant wear on them and remachined them to spec, replacing the belts and bearings all at the same time.
The cam driven pump in the apron failed to operate, and found that the seat for the ball had become worn from passing too much crud that got past the filter. I cleaned everything, and reseated the ball by using a small drift punch against the ball and a light tap with a 2oz. hammer. With the seat fixed, I now have oil everywhere it is supposed to go! Easy fix and I strongly recommend it.

Lee (the saw guy)
 
One thing to keep in mind about the ways: the bed ways are flame hardened and have an excellent lifespan if the lubrication system is kept up. The cross slide ways are not hardened and are not particularly well protected by the felt wiper, which is only at the front - there is no wiper at the rear. Frequently swarf makes its way under the cover at the rear of the cross slide where it can cause problems both with the ways and the cross slide screw.

The way to check the cross slide is with a dial indicator. Indicate the same point on a face plate with the slide in several positions. Then, when the cross slide is off, you can get more information by using a 3" hardened dowel in the saddle dovetail and measure to the face plate. Usually there is wear in the center. There are additional tests to perform, let us know if you need more info.

-Dave
 
So I'm going to urge changing various oils first, then getting the spindle working before you start tearing parts off the lathe.

The oil changes are to eliminate any humidity which could have collected as a noticeable amount of water in the various casting chambers especially if you believe it was stored in an environment which was not well controlled. That could lead to emulsification of the oil and poor lubrication properties.

I forget when the module/wiad breakpoint was as far as the spindle drive. You could get some information by looking at the coolant pump (its wiring) and any control transformer wiring...my experience is more with the Module drive and that definitely has a control transformer you can verify configuration of the transformer before pushing electrons.
 
A way to measure the cross slide travel throughout its range involves an four jaw chuck, a accurate straightedge of less length than the lathe swing and a sensitive indicator, preferably a 10ths (0.0001 inch) reading one. Here a 12 inch straight edge can be easily swung although the cross slide travel is less that that. The maximum length possible straightedge improves the accuracy of setting up for the test.

Use the four jaw check to clamp the straightedge with two jaws on opposite sides of the straightedge. Be careful, don't ruin an expensive inspection tool with excessive jaw force. Keep the edge proud of the jaws and about on center of the spindle. Eyeball is good enough for this. Indicate the two ends to zero by rotating the chuck to do so. Do not move the carriage or cross slide while indicating the straightedge ends to zero-zero. Snug up the chuck and verify nothing has moved or is loose. Repeat until exactly zero-zero. Don't impart bending into that precision tool.

Now the edge of the straightedge is perpendicular to the spindle axis. Put it horizontal. Indicate to it through the entire travel of the cross slide. Any deviations from perpendicular can be directly noted. Acceptable tolerances for a tool room lathe are available in books such as "Machine Tool Reconditioning" by Edward F. Connelly.

Acceptable is a TINY slight bias to machine a concave facing cut, no amount of convex cut is permitted. In other words as the cross slide is moved from full retract (towards you) to full extend getting longer for the indicator (to the tolerance permitted) is OK while getting shorter is not.

This is part of a lathe survey. A survey simply repeats the qualifying tests made when the lathe was tested before it was approved by Quality for sale. The book mentioned covers all the testing procedures and far more as well.
 
Getting the Big Picture now. My initial intent was simply a "return to service" with attention to detail where needed. After reviewing the profusion of instruction offered here, my plans are changing. Its looking profitable and fun to do more.

So I'll start by applying a good dose of the sage advise offered and survey the machine to the max extent possible, before any tear down. A good diagnosis is always needed before offering the cure, right?

So I'll begin with changing all fluids, as Matt recommends. Then the cross slide and saddle will be removed and cleaned up as necessary to restore the existing movement to as-is condition. Ditto the tail stock. Belts will all be changed, and new wipers installed. Apron pump operation will be ensured. And lastly, the machine will be powered up.

Then I will do a full survey and a few test cuts... Dave - thanks for that well written explanation of how to verify cross slide accuracy. I did order the book you mentioned. I'll also get a Miller test bar, and have purchased a .0001 dial test kit. Let the spending begin! :eek:

The survey results will help guide the rebuild. The machine will then be fully taken down - all components, and all mechanics. It will be completely stripped for repaint & refinish. I'm probably looking at a year and maybe more of part/spare time but it'll be a great project to do. Admittedly, I do enjoy this kind of work.

I'm confident there's plenty of content and help available here to do this. Your responses to date do instill confidence to press on and dig in. Thanks so much...

Bill
 
A 1958 vintage has a 3 sightglass headstock, the headstock bearings drain by removing the sight glasses, usually they need to be cleaned anyway. the spindle gearbox has a drain in the enclosed area,(under the top left cover) as well as a drain and fill for the QC gearbox. The fill for the spindle gearbox is that chrome knob under the small cover top the headstock.

You should order the cork sightglass gaskets from Monarch, each glass takes 2 gaskets.
 
Pictures !!

I've set up a Google photo album if you want to see the hi-res shots:

Photo Album

These will be updated with progress as it occurs. What you see so far are the pre-buy pics. After measuring bed way wear, what really sealed the deal for me were the 2 brand new C16J's in the "tube" box. OMG :eek:

Toms Wheels - I'm writing up an order to be placed with Monarch as we speak. I'll add the sight glass gaskets if they're not too pricey. Otherwise, I might make them myself.

More to follow...
 
The bearings inside the feed belt idler pulley are shot. Pressed the pair out, along with a spacer in there.

Does anybody have a source for these bearings?

edit:

From DaveE907's post 12-2008:

"The sticky at the top of the forum "Cheap Bearings for Belt idlers" addresses the bearings for the spindle belt idlers. I used the company to purchase new bearings for those idlers and am a happy customer. They also carry the "felt seal replacement" bearings for the flat feed belt idler, the number is 87503. Good price too."

Cool - Thx Dave.
 
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Mike Rowe would be proud. In one afternoon, I did away with 57 years of incrustation inside the motor housing. Actually, the old girl's bawdy past cleaned off without too much complaint and now she looks rather presentable inside. The grease and gunk was loosed and blasted off using an engine cleaning gun blowing solvent and 90 psi shop air. The job left me black as the ace of spades from elbow to wrist and knee to sock, but the results I think were worth it:

C8oAwGPAicKhPZkRQpUmpLeqNvnrE1iLdi-m_f0-acY=w801-h1068-no


2OrpNEJZCubk5dgw9V1vjvW2_tF0dRnC5k12rYKT1jo=w801-h1068-no



Next thing will be to disassemble the saddle/apron enough to have a good look at everything and ensure oil pump operation.

One question: what lubricant is used inside the reduction gearbox down by the big DC motor?
 
Getting the Big Picture now. My initial intent was simply a "return to service" with attention to detail where needed. After reviewing the profusion of instruction offered here, my plans are changing. Its looking profitable and fun to do more.
...............................................

The survey results will help guide the rebuild. The machine will then be fully taken down - all components, and all mechanics. It will be completely stripped for repaint & refinish. I'm probably looking at a year and maybe more of part/spare time but it'll be a great project to do. Admittedly, I do enjoy this kind of work.

I'm confident there's plenty of content and help available here to do this. Your responses to date do instill confidence to press on and dig in. Thanks so much...

Bill

It may just be me, but I would not strip and refinish/repaint this old girl.
It is hard to beat the factory finish and with a little solvent and TLC I think she would be just beautiful. Maybe a little automotive wax after cleaning.
Please rethink this.

My 2 cents. YMMV
 
I wish it was an original finish, but its far from that. The pics make the paint look much better than it really is. If the paint was original I'd do everything I could to restore its luster. I currently have an exemplary Rockwell 11x36 lathe that does have the original factory paint, and it looks amazing.

However, the paint on this machine was just roughed in using simple single part enamel applied with brush and roller. Every bit of mechanical detail was globbed over and simply buried in layer after layer of paint. At least the primate wielding the brush didn't cover over the cross/compound slide indicators or the oil sight glasses. It really does look horrible - to me (of course) ;)

I just realized that my photo album link wasn't working. Here's a link that I *hope* works:

Google Photo Album
 
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