What's new
What's new

10EE tube drive not running

donhansen

Plastic
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Location
Kansas
I changed the idler bearings the other day and wanted to test it to assure I had the belt tension adjusted correctly. I took it up to 1600 RPM which I had not done in the past and it stalled and quit running. I cut the RPM's back and it started running again. Very foolishly I tried it again. This time it quit and turned off. I don't know where to go from here. I know it is a tube drive but don't know where the tubes are located or how to test them if I did know. While I can usually change a light bulb that's about the extent of my electrical skills So I'm going to need more than a bit of guidance. Any and all guidance would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Don Hansen.
 
I should have added that I did check the breaker at the box and in the back of the machine and they were fine. Thanks, Don Hansen.
 
The serial number is TS1687. It was manufactured in 1959. Thank you for responding. Don Hansen.

That is a strange serial number. I would have expected a five-digit number in the low forty-thousands, like maybe 43xxx. In any event, a 1959 tube drive should be a WIAD ("Works in a drawer"). I have a modular, and will be of little help in diagnosing a WIAD.
 
I'm sorry. I posted the serial number of the motor. My brother is looking into a VFD drive for me and I posted the wrong number. The correct serial number for the lathe is 44005. Sorry for the confusion. Don Hansen.
 
For some one that knows little about electronics that will be a long shot but I suspect that you are losing field voltage on the motor and the field loss relay is tripping also there are fusses that will also blow and cause it not to come back on. Do you have a volt meter and a manual two necessary items to proceed any futher.
 
I do have a voltmeter but no manual. What and where should I get a manual? I know this is a PITA for you folk. I've been lurking for a number of years but understand very little of what has been discussed concerning the electronics and drives on the various machines. But I'm willing to learn> I don't feel like a have much choice at this juncture as I need to get my baby up and running again. Thanks again for your patience. Don Hansen.
 
There is a door on the end where the tail stock is that is where some of the fusses are and the tubes. Check all fusses that you can see You can order a Manual from Monarch using your serial number even if you do go the vfd route a manual is highly desirable.
 
Thanks so much. I found the fuse and will pull it tomorrow and check it. I'll call Monarch tomorrow and find out how many pints of blood and arms they require for a manual. Thanks again, Don Hansen.
 
Thanks so much. I found the fuse and will pull it tomorrow and check it. I'll call Monarch tomorrow and find out how many pints of blood and arms they require for a manual. Thanks again, Don Hansen.

For a 10EE? Been only about $75 for ages. From your serial #, they not only make sure the manual and initial as-built for that specific 10EE match their files, they can even tell you who the first owner was, and what chucks, TA, & such it left the factory with.

A bargain, that. Wish I had the same quality on my HOUSE!

:)
 
Guess I spoke to soon. I just replaced the idler bearings and Monarch quoted $368 for the bearings. Thanks to a sticky on this forum I was able to replace them for $68 shipped. The manual does sound like a value if they indeed sent what applies to my specific machine. Thanks, Don Hansen.
 
Try walking this troubleshooting list from the manual:

10ee_WiaD_trouble_shooting.gif
 
I have been having an issue with the 6N7 tube, but it is not the tube but the socket. If you turn on the power, does the fan come and the green light on the button glows? Then when you press the button does the relay click or does it fail to latch? Remove all the tubes that have sockets and put them back and make sure all seem to be seating firmly.
 
My brother the engineer has been holding my hand and leading me through the darkness. We {he} found the main 5 amp fuse had been disrupted. He had me check the power source and thinks there is a problem with the input wiring so I'm going to have an electrician I trust come out and take a look before going any further.

To answer your question about what happens when I turn the machine on - nothing. No green light, fan, or warm up relay start to rotate. I don't want to replace the fuse and try something else before I know the power source has been wired correctly. So there may be a bit of a delay before I can check any thing else.

Thank you all for your interest and help! It is greatly appreciated. Don Hansen.
 
My brother the engineer has been holding my hand and leading me through the darkness. We {he} found the main 5 amp fuse had been disrupted. He had me check the power source and thinks there is a problem with the input wiring so I'm going to have an electrician I trust come out and take a look before going any further.

To answer your question about what happens when I turn the machine on - nothing. No green light, fan, or warm up relay start to rotate. I don't want to replace the fuse and try something else before I know the power source has been wired correctly. So there may be a bit of a delay before I can check any thing else.

Thank you all for your interest and help! It is greatly appreciated. Don Hansen.

Coupla points for your sparks to know ahead of time:

- broken wires in the conduit runs are so uncommon I recall none.

- broken wires at a crimp terminal, or failed termination, we have seen now and then.

- broken wires have now and then been found on the DC panel, usual at the backside or where passed through.

- Motor control switches include some safety features. Their 'sections" have cams that wear, switch contacts or microswitches as do the same. So, too the wiring to, and contacts on, the primary power switch, left and down of the carriage, front of HS casting, "naked" contacts inside and of a "WTF WERE they thinking???" archaic design.

- ELSR - if even you HAVE it, is also "in the loop" as to permitting final-drive motor turns to be made (but not MG or hollow-state bottles - those stay live).

- later 10EE can also have reduction gear shifter interlocks, and spindle-lock switches. Your one may have neither, but it is worth a recce to confirm that.

- 10EE are old enough - ALL of them - to perhaps have had one - or more than one - field-expedient monkey-patch or even the most professionally executed of DoD // Contractor or other "Big Corp" owner re-furb, upgrades - even just adding an "E-Stop" or two. Any of those, if you have such, can complicate troubleshooting, as they won't match the original as-built schematics from Monarch. Not unless it was one of THEIR OWN re-furbs, anyway.

CAVEATS: 10EE's predated reduced-hazard 24 Volt control loops. Expect 115 Volts and stick-and-fry Dee CEE, at that.

Good clip-ons recommended, place 'em disconnected, read live power only and ever "no-hands." Live longer that way.

Digging about with meter leads with bare pin tips is an invitation to blowing their pointy little tips clear off with blinding pyrotechnics, even if one avoids being rectum-fried.

Once sorted, "passively", any "live" test gear wants to be 600 V rated MINIMUM, 1200+ is better (I use higher-yet-voltage probes for the 'scope that cost more than the 'scope did).

Slowing or reversing a seriously inductive Dee Cee motor, contactor controlled, can generate industrial-class energy spikes easily four or five times its operating Armature voltage. Worse, they can actually have quite a bit of "energy under the curve".

Not rocket science. Really OLD tech, actually. But tech to be respected and approached with utmost care.

"Lethal Voltages" y'see. DC side even more than AC side.

Work safe. Live long and prosper.

2CW
 
Last edited:
Thanks for your concern. My brother has already drilled that into me. He's got me scared to turn on the shop light at this point. But, as I said, Thank You! We who know little about electricity need to be made painfully clear of the pitfalls that await the uninformed. All the best, Don Hansen.
 
Thanks for your concern. My brother has already drilled that into me. He's got me scared to turn on the shop light at this point. But, as I said, Thank You! We who know little about electricity need to be made painfully clear of the pitfalls that await the uninformed. All the best, Don Hansen.

It ain't just speculation. 1950's to 1972 or so without a significant shock, got across the 370 Volt DC B+ supply of a 1938 Sparks-Whitington "waterfall" front bushel and a peck worth of tubes console radio.

Woke up about five feet away on the concrete. Had a Square D "QO" breaker to thank for waking up at all.

Not that far back, this current era, I had to sort a new set of those bare pin leads for my old Fluke 77. That fireball took out a pricey Parker SSD 514C AND the SSD 507 I was trying to measure in too much of a hurry.

Sometimes.. I think I write these cautionary snippets to keep my OWN arse from being what our Moderator Emeritus, Peter Haas, so aptly termed "rectumfried".

Dinosaur Current has also been described as "stick and fry". Lacking AC's REVERSALS of polarity at 60 to each second, muscles clamp. There is no reversal as AC has to throw one OFF!

:(

Mind.. that don't mean AC can't kill yah. Only that AC makes a loud 60 Hz buzz right between your ears whilst going about the job, and DC just bakes stuff quietly.
 
It ain't just speculation. 1950's to 1972 or so without a significant shock, got across the 370 Volt DC B+ supply of a 1938 Sparks-Whitington "waterfall" front bushel and a peck worth of tubes console radio.

Woke up about five feet away on the concrete. Had a Square D "QO" breaker to thank for waking up at all.

I once proved the efficacy of a 1970's era color TV tube serving as a capacitor. Learned right quick to short things to the frame before poking my grubby fingers into that mess -- and to never work professionally with anything more than 5VDC.
 
Here's an update as to what is happening. The electrician came yesterday and stated the machine was hooked up properly but they used the wrong color wires to do it. He's to pick up the 5 amp fuse that is shot and he and my brother conferred the next step would be to replace the fuse and then trouble shoot the circuit that has the 5 amp fuse to determine what made it blow in the first place. So I think we are getting closer to what happened. I'm still leaning towards a VFD retrofit to try and lessen some future problems. Thanks to all for your help. Don Hansen.
 








 
Back
Top