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1941 round-dial Monarch 10EE rebuild (yep, another one)

Stag53

Plastic
Joined
Dec 4, 2007
Location
Bay Area, CA
Hey All,

Long time listener, first time caller. Wait a minute... Anyhow, thought I'd post some info and pics about my 10EE rebuild/recondition/repaint/etc.

I acquired my 10EE from a fellow hobbyist who had posted it on Craigslist. It was, strangely, in the town I live in about 2 blocks from where I grew up. This was strange only because I live in a beach town known more for awful roller coasters than classic machine tools. The finding was, well, somewhat serendipitous as I've always coveted the 10EE (and had been tentatively been looking to replace my crappy Grizzly 10X24 with one, or a HLV-H, or Clausing Colchester, or something awesome along these lines). Anyhow, I digress. according to the owner and the badges, the lathe had spent most of it's life with a company called Philco. He had acquired it from someone up in WA state. In '74 someone had outfitted it with a DC rectifier setup as the Motor Generator had burned out. It was in running condition (and understandable wear from all the years), with various minor issues, the largest being speed not being consistent with load and not being able to reach full RPM. Luckily, the former owner had done a nice job getting the majority of the crud stripped off.

The plan has evolved from 1) fix the basics and use it, to 2) swap the motor to 5hp AC/VFD and use it (Blackmax motor purchased), to 3) basic repaint and use it, to finally 4) screw it all, strip it down, grind the bed, Moglice the saddle, generally get way out of hand with it, and use it (eventually). Funny how my projects always do this to me (my severe lack of accountability showing through like a sore thumb). I've done a bit of minor machine tool rebulding and upgrading in the past (CNC upgrades, VFD/AC-motor retros, etc), but this is certainly the most aggressive. Lots of reading and studying. Thanks to this forum for all the great info that keeps me up late and is a major reason that I've had to increase my caffeine intake at work. I've also begun learning about scraping in the process... I've actually been bitten by the scraping bug after watching "This Old Tony" on Youtube. He is one clever and inspirational guy. Great vids if you haven't seen them (warning: serious binge watching possible). The Connelly book is a recent purchase - bit of a dry read, but very informative and a nice supplement to the great info on Youtube, etc.

Here's some pics of the last few weeks of the process... moving, tear down, paint stripping, filling, priming (the last 2 weeks have felt much more like car restoration). I found a great shop in Redwood City CA to grind the bed... they also happen to know 10EEs fairly well as they used to work on them for NASA out at Moffett Field. This was all thanks to George Andreason's post (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-and-history/grinding-hendey-208273/) - it wasn't until I found this post that I decided to go forward with correcting the .004" of wear in the bed. D&L is practically in my backyard, so it seemed right to take advantage while I'm at it (I probably will never take advantage of the precision of this lathe, but respect its amazing potential). Today I primed the base, so that's the latest...
 

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Outstanding Adam! I have a 1943 Round Dial and will be faced with much of the same thing soon. I'll be watching closely. Thanks, Guy
 
Thanks Guy! I'll try to keep up with the pics/updates as this machine progresses (and reach out for help when I hit the inevitable snags). What shape is your machine in?
 
Very nice! Glad you picked that machine up and good to see you're bringing it back to tip-top shape (also, well done, you've made some decent progress in 2 weeks).

I saw that 10ee on craigslist and struggled not to buy it. But I've got 2 similar lathes to it; better to see this machine get used.

Please report back on D&L. I've considered using them a number of times for machines of my own. Have yet to actually see any of their work though.
 
Well, when you mentioned "beach town with roller coasters" I thought that you were talking about Santa Cruz, but in reading further, I am not so sure.
I am running a '54 EE square dial for some of the support work that I do in the shop while the cnc stuff does all of the production stuff.

knew concepts
719 Swift street
unit #1
www.knewconcepts.com

Lee The saw guy
 
Well, when you mentioned "beach town with roller coasters" I thought that you were talking about Santa Cruz, but in reading further, I am not so sure.
I am running a '54 EE square dial for some of the support work that I do in the shop while the cnc stuff does all of the production stuff.

knew concepts
719 Swift street
unit #1
www.knewconcepts.com

Lee The saw guy

oh, so those strange looking jewelers saws are your brainchild :). I always wondered if i wanted one or not, i do not use them enough to spring for the cash, but sure as hell they look intriguing. What are they mede of 7075? Love the fact that the handles are not plastic :).


dee
;-D
 
Hi D...
No, the alloy is 6061T6.

Actually, they are now being used more by woodworkers for cutting baselines on dovetails. The blade is thin enough that it will slide down through the saw kerf made for the angle cuts, do a couple of "march in place" strokes to get the blade horizontal, and cut the baseline.
The trick here is to imagine using the flat face of the clamp knob as the base for a bubble level. Keep the clamp level, and you saw a nice straight baseline.

Lee (the saw guy)
 
Hi D...
No, the alloy is 6061T6.

Actually, they are now being used more by woodworkers for cutting baselines on dovetails. The blade is thin enough that it will slide down through the saw kerf made for the angle cuts, do a couple of "march in place" strokes to get the blade horizontal, and cut the baseline.
The trick here is to imagine using the flat face of the clamp knob as the base for a bubble level. Keep the clamp level, and you saw a nice straight baseline.

Lee (the saw guy)

ah...you might just gave me the incentive to buy one...i understand the 3" would be the stiffest, but the 5 would be the most versatile :)


dee
;-D
 
Thanks all - long way to go, but it sure felt good to get that first coat of primer on. I'm debating doing a little more body work on the front side to smooth out some of the curves a bit. Seeing some faceting here and there... trying to remind myself that it's a lathe and not a '53 Ford (another project of mine). Any thoughts here? How far is too far with aesthetics on a 10EE? It's such a great looking machine that I feel the need to go above and beyond... I just fear that it's going to take years to finish!

I'll let everyone know how D&L works out (hopefully they will be getting it up the grinder this week). I'm hoping to break away from work for a couple hours and check it out while they make some sparks.

Halcohead - yeah, I was lucky and saw it pop up on CL while I was "tool cruising". Jumped right on it. Ironically, the lathe was around the corner from my folks' house and the guy actually knew my Dad!

Hey oldster - you got it. I'm in Santa Cruz. Didn't mean to be all mysterious, guess I just didn't fill in that detail. I've seen your saws before and even have the 5" fret saw saved in my Amazon wishlist for a future project (I've got a basic woodworking hobby when metal isn't stealing the show)! I didn't know you were located in SC - super cool to hear about a mfg business in our area, let alone one making some really cool tools.

Thought I'd give the basic details of the prep/paint so far:

- disassembled (duh) with the assistance of a shop crane I welded up from some steel I had lying around. Got a chain hoist from Harbor Freight when they were on sale for $50. All the original electronics (including the rectifier cabinet and unknown state MoGen) and DC motor that came out of it (I've actually got 2 as the former owner had a spare) will not be reinstated, so let me know if anyone has any of this stuff.

-Major degreasing of all surfaces including the interior with a cocktail of Gunk, Simple Green, Brakeleen, and elbow grease.

- Stripped down to bare metal using Jasco aircraft stripper. I prefer the nasty stuff... it really works well and is worth those inevitable burns you get from it... no matter how friggin' careful you are. The lathe had a LOT of paint and took 3 applications plus some stripping wheel action on the angle grinder. Glad that bits over (until I get the bed and HS and TS back. Oh, and all the covers. OK, guess it's far from over).

- Wire brush and washdown with soap and water.

- Phosphoric acid washdown. Makes for no rust + a great base to lay paint or filler down on.

- Alcohol rubdown of everything, blow out all crevices and holes.

- Skim coat exterior surfaces with Evercoat metal glaze. Dry. Sand 15 mins later. Sand more. My Dewalt RO and Fein vac were key here in keeping my shop from being covered in inches of fine, green powder.

- Prime with 2K epoxy (Transtar DTM). 3 coats. The DTM (Direct to Metal) was recommended by the owner at a great auto body supply place in Fremont (AB supply). They stock all kinds of interesting paint products with an emphasis of old hot rods (distributor for the Ed Roth line too).

Next step is sanding out the primer and maybe doing a little more filler work depending on the results of the above quandary.

Have a good night all.
 
That sure is a dream lathe for many people. Having one that will look like it just came out of the factory is a big bonus. Speaking of the factory, it's very near to me and I know lots of guys who worked there over the years. They still make the 10EE here and do lots of rebuilding. I've stopped in on occasion to research the history of machines that acquaintances purchase.
monarch1.jpg

Jack
Fort Loramie, Ohio
 
Thanks Jack! It certainly is my dream lathe. I'd sure love to visit the factory someday - amazing that the 10EE is still in production.

Slow progress of late, thus the lack of posts. Slapped another coat of filler on, sanded, re-primed. Every time I paint, I remember why I hate painting.

Planning to get a coat of POR-15 2K urethane "dark grey" on it next weekend. Bed is on tap for grinding at D&L next week. More to come soon.

-Adam
 
Slapped another coat of filler on, sanded, re-primed. Every time I paint, I remember why I hate painting.

Planning to get a coat of POR-15 2K urethane "dark grey" on it next weekend. Bed is on tap for grinding at D&L next week. More to come soon.

-Adam

? If you've done all that preparation, you no longer NEED Paint Over Rust special chemistry. Might want to put it aside for some other machine-tool you do not wish to make that much preparation investment in. One where you CAN actually save some time by painting over a bit of rust or suspected future 'rebound' TO under-paint rust. It is made to stop that.

POR may even be a significant detraction from regular one-part, self-polymerizing / 'cross linking' Urethanes.

Benjamin-Moore Super-Spec in my case, but there is more than one decent family of 'em out there.

Bill
 
Bill - I'm using a 2K urethane made by (or perhaps purchased and re-branded by) POR-15. Not the Paint Over Rust product they are so aptly named after. A friend of mine has had good results with many of their other products, including the epoxy floor paint. I had originally intended to purchase my topcoat from my local automotive paint store (a similar 2 part urethane, albeit another mfg), but ran across an Amazon "Warehouse Deal" for the POR stuff for $40. Too good to pass up!

Here's the stuff I will be using: http://www.por15.com/POR-15-2K-Urethane_p_123.html


Heading out of town this weekend. Looks like next week holds a couple night's worth of after-work primer wet-sanding, then on to the topcoat next weekend.
 
Bill - I'm using a 2K urethane made by (or perhaps purchased and re-branded by) POR-15. Not the Paint Over Rust product they are so aptly named after. A friend of mine has had good results with many of their other products, including the epoxy floor paint. I had originally intended to purchase my topcoat from my local automotive paint store (a similar 2 part urethane, albeit another mfg), but ran across an Amazon "Warehouse Deal" for the POR stuff for $40. Too good to pass up!
Only part of that ordinarily sub-optimal is that POR leverage their reputation on the real-deal to command a premium price on the white-bread they fill-out their line with.

But you found a work-around, cost-wise, so good on yah!

:)
 








 
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