Another 10EE which will not rotate forward or reverse

Hi all;
I hope another 10EE paperweight post does not bore everyone. I have looked through previous like posts and have not found answers. I have a 1951 10EE with reliance VS drive. Moving headstock lever does not actuate either forward or reverse relays. When the lever is moved and the appropriate relay is mechanically thrown the lathe functions and is able to hold the relay closed on it's own. I have checked the continuity of the C1-C3 and C2-C3 in the control box and when the headstock lever is shifted both tests produce ~ 1/2 ohm. Continutity of C1 (forward) and C2(reverse) to their appropriate solenoid is good. The solenoid resistances for forward and reverse relays is 850 ohms and 900 ohms respectively. Both solenoids output lead to the AP relay. The impedance of the AP relay's solenoid is ~ 4000 ohms. I have cleaned all relay contacts and checked continuity. There are 3 resistors mounted from the front of the control board. Two of them have the appropriate resistance 2100 ohms and 1600 ohms. The third resister is ~29000 ohms and I believe it should be 1600. I have measured the excitation voltage across E1 and E2 in the control box and found it to be 120V. Are the solenoid resistances in line. What wattage resistor are those wire round components found in the box. Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I do know when the spindle lock micro switch was first installed. But it is in the circuit of the control lever,
a very easy inspection to do. I will assume you do not have ELSR setup, where neutral on the knob means no go.

Sounds like the relay voltage is low check voltage on the coil for the correct voltage should be 115 Volt DC.

labeeman said:

Sounds like the relay voltage is low check voltage on the coil for the correct voltage should be 115 Volt DC.

Click to expand...

It can't be too low since it does hold, but knowing the coil voltage would eliminate a lot of guessing about the cause. Low voltage combined with high spring tension could make it hard to pull in but still have enough oomph to hold. Most telling would be if there was any voltage at all present when switching fwd/rev.

On Mine there are no springs. Also do not know if this machine ever worked for him or if it is a new to him machine.

jlittman said:

Hi all;
I hope another 10EE paperweight post does not bore everyone. I have looked through previous like posts and have not found answers. I have a 1951 10EE with reliance VS drive. Moving headstock lever does not actuate either forward or reverse relays. When the lever is moved and the appropriate relay is mechanically thrown the lathe functions and is able to hold the relay closed on it's own. I have checked the continuity of the C1-C3 and C2-C3 in the control box and when the headstock lever is shifted both tests produce ~ 1/2 ohm. Continutity of C1 (forward) and C2(reverse) to their appropriate solenoid is good. The solenoid resistances for forward and reverse relays is 850 ohms and 900 ohms respectively. Both solenoids output lead to the AP relay. The impedance of the AP relay's solenoid is ~ 4000 ohms. I have cleaned all relay contacts and checked continuity. There are 3 resistors mounted from the front of the control board. Two of them have the appropriate resistance 2100 ohms and 1600 ohms. The third resister is ~29000 ohms and I believe it should be 1600. I have measured the excitation voltage across E1 and E2 in the control box and found it to be 120V. Are the solenoid resistances in line. What wattage resistor are those wire round components found in the box. Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

View attachment 201600

Click to expand...

Check the resistance from E1 to C1. You should read the forward relay coil resistance. (E1 to C2 should read the reverse relay's coil.) If not, check the contacts on the Anti-Plugging (AP) relay (it's the one in the middle of the panel, at the top). The AP relay should be closed when the spindle is stopped. It provides the voltage to close the forward or reverse relay. Once one of them is closed, voltage from the 2000 Ohm resistor keeps the relay energized. The resistor is sized so that it provides enough current to keep the relay closed, but not enough to allow it to close when the headstock switch is moved. The contacts on the AP relay should open once the spindle motor is running above about 400 RPM. It's job is to keep you from "plug reversing" the motor; that is, going directly from forward to reverse without stopping the spindle first. If the AP relay is bad, you can bypass the contacts and use the machine, you just have to be careful not to plug reverse the motor.

The missing resistor would have been 1600 Ohms and it would have been connected in series with the other 1600 Ohm resistor. The Field Acceleration (FA) relay won't operate at the right speed without the missing resistor. 1600 Ohm resistors are not a stock size, so I recommend replacing the pair with a 3000 Ohm and a 200 Ohm resistor in series. Here's a link with information about replacing all 3 resistors with 50W resistors (which is a good idea on that panel):
The resistors are about $10 each. Newark is currently out of stock on the 200 Ohm resistor, but Allied has them: Ohmite L50J200E Allied should carry the other two as well.

If you need a wiring diagram for your machine, send me an e-mail.

Cal