ANother new to Monarch 10EE

Terry A · Jun 4, 2017

I bought a 1953 10EE to fix up hopefully not rebuild to give to my dad as a retirement gift he has in Tool & Die for fifty years now and has a small hobby shop at home a Bridgeport mill Taft Peirce surface grinder that I rebuilt small Hardinge horizontal mill and a crappy old Rockwell lathe.
I have read some of the post here and see that many of you are very knowledgeable on the old Monarchs so right now I have 1,500 in the lathe a 7.5HP
inverter motor and a 15HP drive set up for single phase he only has a 5hp rotary phase converter I know a lot of you believe in keeping the DC motor
but this machine has the WIaD and the person I bought the lathe from had already pulled that out and took all the wires off. I was told it was not working and I do not have enough electronics background to know what I'm doing with it I do have all the electronics on a skid. So I have
taken the back gear off and made adapter and mounted on the new 7.5HP invertor motor I have the oversized VFD drive so I can run on single phase
and a speed pot so I can keep original speed control knob. I believe iron is in good condition I measured thickness of back flat way and all checks
full length of bed are same within .0007 The only check I did on front v way was removed chuck so I could move carriage till the front Gib bearing was at 1/2 inch from font end of bed could barely turn bearing with fingers then move carriage toward tailstock with my finger on bearing got about 3 inch before I could keep bearing from turning easily with finger I did not find any where along way as I moved to tail stock that I could not get the bearing to where I could turn it with fingers when I put a .001 plastic shim in between bearing and way is there any other checks for bed
wear I should do. Cross slide lead screw & nut is worn when all cross slide is all the back toward operator only .003 back lash when in around normal work envelope we have .018 back lash is this a monarch only item or are there good after market ones available. I'm going to pull sadle and replace all Bijur meter units and lines. replace sight glass they are hard to see through and change all oils replace all felt wippers. the quill on tail stock looks good clean and no scaring. Is there anything else I should look at or do remember this is just a hobby machine. I have a 5C collet chuck 6inch 3 Jaw with removible top jaws and face plate for machine anything else he will have to get for himself. Hopefully I will be able to get much need advise for some of you fine folks her as I get more into this machine and when its done we can shoot the old Rockwell to put it out of our misery.

Monarchist · Jun 4, 2017

Good on Yah, Terry!

But before we do anything else, let me try to show you a way to make it less difficult for the community to understand and respond.

Terry A said:
I bought a 1953 10EE to fix up hopefully not rebuild to give to my dad as a retirement gift. So far, I have $1,500 in the lathe.

Dad has been in in Tool & Die trade for fifty years. He now has a small hobby shop at home. It includes a Bridgeport mill, a Taft Peirce surface grinder that I rebuilt, a small Hardinge horizontal mill, and a crappy old Rockwell lathe. So far, he has been able to run all this from one 5hp rotary phase converter.

I have read some of the posts here and see that many of you are very knowledgeable on the old Monarchs. I know a lot of you believe in keeping the DC motor.

This machine had the WIaD. I was told it was not working. The person I bought the lathe from had already pulled that out and took all the wires off. I do still have the motor and all the electronics on a skid. I do not have enough electronics background to know what I'm doing with it.

Instead, I have installed a 7.5HP inverter duty 3 phase AC motor and a 15HP VFD drive set up for single phase. I have already taken the back gear off the DC motor, made an adapter, and mounted it to the new 7.5HP AC motor. I have the oversized VFD drive so I can run on single phase. A remote speed pot let me keep original speed control knob.

I believe iron is in good condition. I measured thickness of back flat way and all checks full length of bed are same within .0007.

The only check I did on front v way was removed chuck so I could move carriage till the front Gib bearing was at 1/2 inch from font end of bed.

I could barely turn bearing with fingers then move carriage toward tailstock with my finger on bearing got about 3 inch before I could keep bearing from turning easily with finger. I did not find any where along way as I moved to tail stock that I could not get the bearing to where I could turn it with fingers when I put a .001 plastic shim in between bearing and way.

Are there any other checks for bed wear I should do?

Cross slide lead screw & nut is worn. When all cross slide is all the back toward operator there is only .003 back lash. When in around normal work envelope we have .018 back lash.

Is this a monarch only item, or are there good after market ones available?

I'm going to pull sadle and replace all Bijur meter units and lines.

I am going to replace sight glasses they are hard to see through.
I shall change all oils and replace all felt wipers.

The quill on tail stock looks good clean and no scaring.

Is there anything else I should look at or do?

Remember this is just a hobby machine.

I have a 5C collet chuck 6inch 3 Jaw with removible top jaws and face plate.

For machine anything else he will have to get for himself.

Hopefully I will be able to get much need advise for some of you fine folks her as I get more into this machine and when its done we can shoot the old Rockwell to put it out of our misery.

I hope the changes are acceptable, helpful, and not offensive.

Advice?

Simple, really.

- Order the manual from Monarch for that 10EE's specific serial number if you have not already.

- Get your Dad set-up with a PM account so he can research the Monarch Forum directly if he does not have an account already.

And then... if your Dad has indeed been 50 years a Tool & Die maker and is still YOUNG enough to be just-about-now retiring? (some among us are past 90, past 80, and MANY are past 70, after all...)

Simply hand him "the keys" to a Monarch 10EE... say:

Dad? it may be too much for your limited skill and experience to fix this old warhorse up better than the Rockwell...but maybe you will prove me wrong?

.. then run for your life!

HE will sort it.... and if you don't move far enough, fast enough - and/or are not SMILING?

He may still be fast enough to sort YOU as well..

Not a "Monarch thing". That's a "Dad" thing. DAMHIKT.

Terry A · Jun 4, 2017

Thanks for help with post very helpful and absolutely no offence taken.
I have contacted Monarch for manual and parts book.
Are there any other checks I should do for wear on machine.
I assume ( I know that's a bad thing to do) the back flat way and front flat way should be same height and check flat to each other.
What method is better for checking V ways.
Other than Monarch is there a good place to look for any parts needed
I want to have machine up and running in good condition when I give it to him then if he wants it to look like a Prom Queen he can sand polish and paint.

Monarchist · Jun 4, 2017

Terry A said:
I want to have machine up and running in good condition when I give it to him..

If you have sorted power to it, finish the sight glass cleanup/replacement, do flush and lube change, call it good 'for now'.

Forget the dial Indicators for a minute. Take a Stanley steel tape and note that for a 20" traverse, the carriage is around 2" longer that the travel.

Result is that a 10EE worn all to hell is STILL able to turn out damned good work. It spent long years distributing the wear. Now it distributes the error caused BY that wear to minimize the EFFECT of the wear.

That's a significant part of why we love 'em.

They are "owed" $2,000- plus worth of new super-precision spindle bearings.
They have EARNED $3,000-$4,000 worth of bed re-grind and 150 hours of scraping and fitting of carriage & TS.

But they won't cease doing the best they can without those things, and their 'best', even worn, is astonishingly good.

Turn an 18" bar. Check the deviation every inch. Now turn a width of but 3/4" at each end, then in the centre. Pretend those are to be precise bearing fits.

How good can you make, those, just as it is NOW? Scary good, I'll bet.
He's fifty-years in the trade? Not a problem for him.

If you really want to put it into 'as new' shape, budget somewhere North of $5,000 - perhaps twice that - and six months if not a year or two. It just isn't like having a favourite reclining armchair re-upholstered.

Just me, but I figure those are decisions you take with your Dad IN the decision loop, not before he gets it.

How you gonna feel if you find out when he retires he scraps the shop, cremates the Rockwell and sends it off for burial at sea, washes hands, says:

"THERE.. I don't ever want to have to look at another chip of metal in my life! I am off to a new start raising honeybees!"

Terry A · Jun 5, 2017

Thank you Sir for taking some time to share your Wisdom.
I will get the new motor in all clean fluids and oil meters and take her for a test drive.
Back in the 80's when every mold shop was still running Gorton 2-30 duplicators the only way to wear one of them out was to not change Bijur meter units
I kept

Monarchist · Jun 5, 2017

Terry A said:
Thank you Sir for taking some time to share your Wisdom.
I will get the new motor in all clean fluids and oil meters and take her for a test drive.
Back in the 80's when every mold shop was still running Gorton 2-30 duplicators the only way to wear one of them out was to not change Bijur meter units
I kept

That will have already happened to almost EVERY 10EE still intact.

Check the front flat way for wear, clearance to the underside of the saddle, and 'listen' for the sound of dragging its apron innards on leadscrew and power surfacing drive shafting..

One of mine - the 1942 - has a slight drag for less than a third of its length, the other, a 1944, the entire length.

In the late 1950's, early 1960's, when I - and a million or so OTHER lathe and mill hands in marginal shops, small and large, were earning our daily crust on clapped-out machine tools that had carried America through the Korean War, the Second World War, the First World War, and for at least two of the machines I operated, the Spanish American War?

Any one of us would have thought we had died and gone to heaven to have had the luxury of using either of those 10EE - in their present 2017 "badly worn" condition.

That sort of wear was a small fraction of what we dealt with on old Niles and Lodge & Shipley lathes every hour of every shift.

Not a "show stopper" in other words.

"First, do no harm"

There is more than a dozen years of 10EE rebuild preserved here on PM.

You, and your Dad might take a certain shared satisfaction in reviewing that - than making a plan to determine which areas most need restoral, earliest for that 10EE, so as to enjoy each increment of improvement as you do what best fits your time, money, and energy budget.

Just to put it in perspective.. you CAN still get a 10EE that 100% meets as-new specifications. Or even just an RCH better than OEM new.

Call Monarch Lathe. Negotiate a budget for just HOW good you need it to be.

I'd guess between $180,000 and $250,000 dollars for a "no shortcuts" rebuild from the parts they have stashed or will make or have made to original prints.

If YOUR one is not in bad shape? They might be able to rebuild it for $30,000 to $50,000 or so. Call them. They will have the 'real' numbers. I'm just guessing.

As said, it just ain't the same as having a reclining armchair re-upholstered.

And if new Bijur metering units NOW could replace what has worn away ALREADY and restore full as-new function?

Trust this. I'd have set of them elastic-bandaged right back of my own damned scrotum and not even give a damn if I had to take my meals "standing UP"....

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