Anti plugging relay

lectrician1 · Feb 7, 2017

My ap relay doesn't seem to be doing anything

What should normal operation look like?

My manual says relay contacts open when spindle is over 300 rpm.

Since the coil wasn't doing anything i manually opened the anti plugging relay contacts while the spindle was in reverse and the reverse contactor deenergized and the spindle began to stop. Soon as i release the relay contact the the spindle started again

Normal or no?

rke[pler · Feb 7, 2017

It doesn't sounds right. Are the hold points on the reverse contactor engaging?

What happens when going from forward to reverse?

9100 · Feb 7, 2017

If the coil is bad I can rewind it. My PM box is always full so if you want to contact me, email [email protected].

Bill

atomarc · Feb 7, 2017

9100 said:
If the coil is bad I can rewind it. My PM box is always full so if you want to contact me, email [email protected].

Bill

Is there some reason you don't empty your PM box??

Stuart

Monarchist · Feb 7, 2017

atomarc said:
Is there some reason you don't empty your PM box??

Stuart

Stuart,

The PM 'send email' option, lower right of the menu pop-up tab when one clicks on a member's handle, avoids the nuisance of a PM-PM box going full when one hasn't paid attention for a while.

Far less hassle to intentionally KEEP the PM box full, use the email feature exclusively.

A.N. Other Bill

atomarc · Feb 8, 2017

Neither 'Monarchist' or '9100' offer up a 'send email' option..this makes your post a bit confusing to me.

What's so complicated about keeping ones PM-PM box in order..especially when one isn't willing to list a email address as an option?

Stuart

Monarchist · Feb 8, 2017

atomarc said:
Neither 'Monarchist' or '9100' offer up a 'send email' option..this makes your post a bit confusing to me.

Just checked and you are correct. My email has always been listed, is still in my 'settings', but the menu option I pointed you to has now vanished.

HANG on.. of course I would not see MYSELF. I DO still see yours. Let me try a test message.

lectrician1 · Feb 8, 2017

The coil on the ap relay is bad
I just bought one from a guy on pm
Waiting for delivery
I measured the voltage going to the relay.
The voltage increases with spindle speed up to about 140 or so
I wonder if that is normal

Monarchist · Feb 8, 2017

lectrician1 said:
The coil on the ap relay is bad
I just bought one from a guy on pm
Waiting for delivery
I measured the voltage going to the relay.
The voltage increases with spindle speed up to about 140 or so
I wonder if that is normal

A change in voltage is certainly normal. The AP relay is sensitive to the change, opens and closes within an appropriate range.

As to the "increases with spindle speed up to about 140 or so"?

Did you mean the spindle RPM continued to rise after the Voltage reached 140, then ceased to increase with the RPM increase?

Or that 140 Volts was reached when spindle HAD ALREADY reached maximum RPM?

Or am I really wrong in assuming the 140 was Volts, not 140 RPM?

Bill

rke[pler · Feb 8, 2017

Voltage to the coil should be the armature voltage vary up to about 1/2 speed.

Voltage across the open points should be the control voltage and be (relatively) constant. If it isn't I'd look at the EL1C rectifier and see if it's wonky (basically replace it and see if things change, if not you now have a spare EL1C. When looking for a new one look also under 3B22.)

lectrician1 · Feb 8, 2017

As I increased the spindle speed the voltage going to the ap relay also increased to about 140volts

Monarchist · Feb 8, 2017

lectrician1 said:
As I increased the spindle speed the voltage going to the ap relay also increased to about 140volts

See above. Motor nameplate max armature is 230 VDC. Actual use, we (PM community) have seen 250-260, sometimes more. Your 140 VDC is OK.

Different meter might not read the same. Thyristor drives, vacuum/plasma state or solid state, can have a significant 'AC component' on the output to the Armature. Confuses some meters not, others rectify and add on top of the DC, indicate higher.

'Scope shows the truth if you have one.

Bill

rke[pler · Feb 9, 2017

It's still not clear to me if we're talking coil or contacts.

lectrician1 · Feb 9, 2017

Voltage across coil

rke[pler · Feb 9, 2017

lectrician1 said:
Voltage across coil

Then you're reading the armature voltage. With an unmolested drive that'd be 0 VDC (at stop) to about 250 VDC max (above 1/2 the armature speed pot travel).

lectrician1 · Feb 9, 2017

Bill 9100-I tried to email you but it bounced back
How much for the rewind
Thanks
Rich

lectrician1 · Feb 10, 2017

I got a new coil for the ap relay.
When the coil on the relay energizes and the contact opens, whichever contactor is energized, forward or reverse, gets deenergized the the motor stops.
i know the coil on the ap relay is in parallel with the armature.
what holds the forward /reverse contactors closed when the ap contact opens?
Thanks
Rich

rke[pler · Feb 11, 2017

lectrician1 said:
what holds the forward /reverse contactors closed when the ap contact opens?

The contactor hold points. They're the innermost points and don't have arc blowout.

lectrician1 · Feb 11, 2017

Why does the contactor deenergize when the ap relay opens? shouldn't the contactor hold points keep it closed?

rke[pler · Feb 11, 2017

lectrician1 said:
Why does the contactor deenergize when the ap relay opens? shouldn't the contactor hold points keep it closed?

As I asked in #2: are the hold points closing? If they are look to the power on the hold points, trace things. If they have power make sure that they're closing well - it's common for folks to steal the hold points and hammers when repairing burnt points, they might have messed them up.

Anti plugging relay

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