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Back gear making noise in forward only

L

lectrician1

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Location
Las Vegas
Back gear is making noise in forward only

when drive belts are removed the gearbox sounds good a little more noise going forward than reverse

I figured the large bearings were the problem. I got new ones.

Still the same noise in forward

I removed and inspected all the gears cleaned up some of the wear. no broken teeth

Any ideas where to go from here?

Thanks

Rich
 
lectrician1 said:
Back gear is making noise in forward only

when drive belts are removed the gearbox sounds good a little more noise going forward than reverse

I figured the large bearings were the problem. I got new ones.

Still the same noise in forward

I removed and inspected all the gears cleaned up some of the wear. no broken teeth

Any ideas where to go from here?

Thanks

Rich
Click to expand...

? What do you mean by "cleaned up some of the wear"?

Have photos of the gears. Worn teeth?

Any chance it had been run dry of lube and it is rather serious wear, just evenly distributed?

Dog-clutch OK?

End play/thrust? Any pressure on-axis off the motor, shaft? Did new gaskets too?

Lube used is?
 
lectrician1 said:
Back gear is making noise in forward only

when drive belts are removed the gearbox sounds good a little more noise going forward than reverse

I figured the large bearings were the problem. I got new ones.

Still the same noise in forward

I removed and inspected all the gears cleaned up some of the wear. no broken teeth

Any ideas where to go from here?

Thanks

Rich
Click to expand...

What sort of lathe? SB? Most cone heads have open back gears and they are not exactly quiet.
 
moonlight machine said:
What sort of lathe? SB? Most cone heads have open back gears and they are not exactly quiet.
Click to expand...

Monarch forum. 10EE. They aren't 'back' gears. Closed, oil lubricated, reduction gearbox and selector dog-clutch is at the input end of the drivetrain, not the final-drive output at the spindle end as back-gears are.

Prolly call them 'front' gears on that basis. Not stealth-quiet, but not meant to be all that noisy, either.

:)

Anyhoo.. Doing it that way lets the two longish "A" section Vee belts soak up any potential 'watermark' on the work from gear-cogging.

Classical 'back' gear is last player in the drivetrain when engaged, straight-cut spur gears can challenge ability to get fine fishes.

10EE gearbox works good. Lasts a long time. But even so, there is a shortage of spare gearboxes by now.

Bill
 
If your talking about a 10ee. Either live with it, or search for a quieter gearbox. The teeth may look ok , but under closer inspection you will find a big differene in surface finish between the forward and reverse sides of the gears. This little difference will signicantly change the sound (gerar Noise). The worse offender is the pinion gear coupled to the motor. You might be able to replace that, but will have very little improvement.
 
Monarchist said:
10EE gearbox works good. Lasts a long time. But even so, there is a shortage of spare gearboxes by now.
Click to expand...

Yep. To that end, I have to make four gears for the boxes in the near future for two other chaps that have similar issues. Been on the back burner for a while now but need to get them done and on their ways.
 
Zahnrad Kopf said:
Yep. To that end, I have to make four gears for the boxes in the near future for two other chaps that have similar issues. Been on the back burner for a while now but need to get them done and on their ways.
Click to expand...

That's two sets, then?

One-each 1942 & 1943 gearboxes here. Haven't opened either. Could take 'as stipulated' both would benefit as well.

What happens to cost & c. if we could double that order - or even more?

The reduction gearbox is not easy to substitute for. I've been researching that for years with an eye to use of other motors. No Joy so far.

Bill
 
I did get new replacement bearings which I installed last night to see if the noise would go away. The original front bearing had a groove on the outer race for a snap ring. New bearings did not have that groove even though I used the exact same order number on the bearing.

How would I go about making that snap ring groove in the hardened race?
 
lectrician1 said:
I did get new replacement bearings which I installed last night to see if the noise would go away. The original front bearing had a groove on the outer race for a snap ring. New bearings did not have that groove even though I used the exact same order number on the bearing.

How would I go about making that snap ring groove in the hardened race?
Click to expand...

Set that one aside, and buy another bearing that already has it. Cheaper that way, lower risk of damage.
 
Yeah, I completely rebuilt my backgear box, all new bearings, cleaned up gears, stoned dogs, and it is loud and growly in forward and relatively peaceful in reverse. I know that Monarch went to a splined shaft in there later , probably for this reason. It is what it is.
 
Monarchist said:
That's two sets, then?
One-each 1942 & 1943 gearboxes here. Haven't opened either. Could take 'as stipulated' both would benefit as well.
What happens to cost & c. if we could double that order - or even more?
The reduction gearbox is not easy to substitute for. I've been researching that for years with an eye to use of other motors. No Joy so far.
Bill
Click to expand...

In all honesty, not a whole lot... The difference between making two and four is not that much of difference so as to make very much impact upon price. This is the largest factor in why most places that are knowledgeable and capable of making quality gearing do not even have the time of day for people not interested in numbers more than hundreds.

That said, I have been extremely flexible and hopefully considerate when it comes to assisting members here, and most especially the Monarch forum, in consideration of the vast benefits I myself have reaped from the help of other members.

I'll post a note when I am getting ready to make the box gears and those that have desire can contact us.
 
Zahnrad Kopf said:
That said, I have been extremely flexible and hopefully considerate when it comes to assisting members here, and most especially the Monarch forum, in consideration of the vast benefits I myself have reaped from the help of other members.

I'll post a note when I am getting ready to make the box gears and those that have desire can contact us.
Click to expand...

That consideration has been appreciated, I am sure, and no one who has shop rates or just basic business sense expects you to work for just break-even.

As gears are 'what you do', it might not be unreasonable to see if more members and/or Monarch Lathe LP - who, AFAIK - are at least not 'specialists' in gear making - might have enough interest to get a run up to 30, maybe 50, sets or so.

With my bean-counter hat on at a SWAG-angle, a hundred is probably more than such 10EE's that need them will be blessed with a spend on.

Reduction gears just are not used that often by many of their minders, but if affordable 'enough'... might attract a spend, much as good quality paint and prep do - those not adding directly to more precise work, whilst sound, new, gears could do - at least now and then.

Fair certain I'll be in for two sets, even just 'guessing' at probable price.

It will need a bespoke PM thread as with the metric sets to find if there are many more seekers, or only a few, once you've sorted whether it even fits your plans at all, of course.

I'd love to have quiet Herringbone - or at least helical cut - gears in there, but pretty sure it borders on the impossible to do that as arranged, driven, dog-clutched, and in the space available and not end up too fragile for their 'mission'.

:)

Bill
 
Monarchist said:
I'd love to have quiet Herringbone - or at least helical cut - gears in there, but pretty sure it borders on the impossible to do that as arranged, driven, dog-clutched, and in the space available and not end up too fragile for their 'mission'.
Click to expand...

I know it can be done. Question is how far one wants to go to make it so.

That said, recent developments here might be able to assist with that. One of the engineers that I used to work with very closely is a personal friend. He retired at a point and we hadn't spoken for a bit. He came poking about a few weeks ago and let known that he's a bit bored and might take some side work.

He is one of the smartest people I have ever known in my lifetime and is also one of the top three Gear Experts I am familiar with. I would put his knowledge and abilities lesser than only two others in the country. I have extended him free reign of the shop to come visit, hang out, and should he desire - engineer at any time he wants.

He and I agreed that we ( our shop ) will formally offer Gear Pair and Gear Box Engineering Services for the world at large, and he will take those as they come. I can do the design work, and have done a fair amount of it thus far. But he is orders of magnitude brighter and more experienced in this niche of our niche, and has the same orders of magnitude more experience doing so professionally, not to mention the actual professional credentials and degrees.

As with most of the level of brain power, he's not above taking some projects from time to time as the futile effort in theory. In fact, he and I are working on some novel new approaches to manufacture of certain types of Gear Tooth Designs right this minute. This is all the long winded way of saying that he might actually be up for designing a Helical Gear Train that would retrofit the old boxes... :cool:
 
Should probably post this separately but I still have one more gear box sitting around if someone is in need.
Paul
 
lectrician1 said:
Back gear is making noise in forward only

when drive belts are removed the gearbox sounds good a little more noise going forward than reverse

I figured the large bearings were the problem. I got new ones.

Still the same noise in forward

I removed and inspected all the gears cleaned up some of the wear. no broken teeth

Any ideas where to go from here?

Thanks

Rich
Click to expand...

can of spray grease. usually one squirt and noise quiets down in seconds. usually got to spray grease again after so many hours. i only do it when noise is loud
.
auto greasing systems are available but you can get a big pile of grease by gears after a few years
 
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