Thread: The exciting life of Lucille

ok, mental note for all you freight companies out there. DO NOT send a 3400 pound Monarch 10EE to a residential house with a truck equipped with a 3000 pound aluminum lift gate and one guy. we rolled the thing half way on the gate and it deflected about 10 degrees and started rolling until he dropped the pallet. after 2 hours of him trying to convince his boss that we need help, he finally sent some more guys to my house. we were able to rig up a safety strap system to keep it from rolling off the edge of the lift and get it completely on the lift and on the ground. from there, it was easy getting it into the garage.

it did show up damaged tho. after HGR shrink wrapped it, someone drove a forklift into it and pushed the plug into the cover plate, smashing the aluminum pretty bad, plus when HGR put it on the pallet, they removed the leveling pads and never backed the bolts themselves into the case. with those bolts hanging down while the truck was moving, it bent the bolts over pretty bad. i may have to cut them off and replace them completely.

i told the trucking company i guessed it was about 600 in damage, does that sound about right for a side cover?

I am going to document my experiences with this old girl in this thread if nobody minds.

another round of pictures for now. after work i will get the strapping off and open up the electric cabinets

It IS possible to reliably and safely deliver a 10EE to a residential site, but:

1) the pallet must be purpose-built to retain the machine during shipment, and

2) the delivery truck's lift gate must be rated at least 3,500 pounds.

A conventional pallet is not a good choice. Rather, a pallet made from pressure-treated 4 x 4s with 2 x 6 tongue-and-groove floor or roof sheathing should be applied thereupon, and the overall dimensions of the pallet should be rather generous so as to afford maximum protection to the machine. I suspect that the delivery companies would prefer pallets which are sized as multiples of a standard pallet size.

The machine should NOT be "lagged", but should be through-bolted to the pallet deck, employing the three cored holes within the machine's base casting (the famous "kinematic" mount). I suppose common 5/8" bolts could be employed, but 5/8" all-thread rod is also a good choice. Use of "fender" washers is recommended, as are "heavy" nuts.

My experiences: when the sender employed a purpose-built pallet, there was no damage to the machine; when the sender employed a conventional pallet, the headstock cover arrived with significant damage.

It is desirable that the 4 x 4s run across the short end of the pallet so that a standard pallet truck (jack) may be employed to safely move the palletized machine. It is also essential that the 4 x 4s be spaced to allow a standard pallet truck (or two) to be employed.

Fork lift trucks usually have fully adjustable tynes, but pallet jacks usually don't.

the pallet they built is not bad. it looks like they used a half decent hardwood. the rings look like oak, but the color is wrong for oak. it looks like they were just sloppy in preparing the machine and locking it down to the pallet. they didn't bolt it or anything, they just strapped it down so it slid around and bent the leveler bolts. The trucking company on the other hand was better at delivering pallets of paper to a loading dock than a machine tool.

lesson learned, next time i will insist on a freight company that employ proper riggers for the job.

I am, or was, some years ago, a certified Lift Truck Safety Instructor. The lift operators at truck terminals drive their lifts with what I would term "grim abandon". If a piece of machinery can possibly be damaged while in their care, it is doomed.

Side covers show up on ebay relatively regularly, from memory the going price seems to be about $300 plus or minus an eliphant.

I"d keep my eyes open for a replacment but would do some type of repair to the cover, after all it is a cover. I think you can make a repair the is visually fine by using your choice of bondo, fiberglass or epoxy, JB weld etc. If you have the equipment and knowlege you can probably fill with metal etc (I know I can't do that).

Paul

Originally Posted by PaulM

Side covers show up on ebay relatively regularly, from memory the going price seems to be about $300 plus or minus an eliphant.

I"d keep my eyes open for a replacment but would do some type of repair to the cover, after all it is a cover. I think you can make a repair the is visually fine by using your choice of bondo, fiberglass or epoxy, JB weld etc. If you have the equipment and knowlege you can probably fill with metal etc (I know I can't do that).

Paul

i was thinking the same thing. drill the ends of the cracks to keep them from walking any further, little west systems epoxy with a piece of 24-12 biaxial mat and some bondo. it won't go anywhere. With West Systems, probably last another 50 years to boot. i just need to make sure i relieve all the stress in the crack or it will forever give me problems. but i can do that with a die grinder for the most part.

Originally Posted by peterh5322

Rather, a pallet made from pressure-treated 4 x 4s with 2 x 6 tongue-and-groove floor or roof sheathing should be applied thereupon

WOW...that's some pallet!

Stuart

pics behind the cover plates. The pump looks new. i removed the module and the date sticker on the back says 1984. obviously i need new belts. the electrical components look good to me but i barely know what im looking at

shot of the motor and smashed cover plate. one question i did have is on the spindle lock ring. the ring looks like its really wore out to me but i don't know what its supposed to look like.

Spindle lock ring does look like it has seen some abuse. However it should still function just fine - in fits in the notches and rotates to lock in place, rotate further to unlock. There should be an interlock that keeps you from running the drive if you have the lock engaged - I have used it multiple times forgetting to unlock, no harm done. My wild ass guess is engage while spinning - maybe the dynamic braking is not working and they figured that would stop things faster. The dynamic braking should stop the spindle from full speed in a second.

Paul

ok, so the locking ring is intended for a "logical" lock where it just allows a switch to open/close so the motor doesn't turn on, not a "physical" lock where we lock it and pull out the 4 foot pipe wrench to fine tune the position of the work piece.

where am i going to find belts for this? i need to place an order for oil here soon so i can juice her up so i was hoping i could get the belts from MSC or Enco.

"where am i going to find belts for this? i need to place an order for oil here soon so i can juice her up so i was hoping i could get the belts from MSC or Enco."

The machine requires a pair of "A" type belts. As these belts are intended to be ganged, you need not select them or buy a matched set ... just buy two A85 or A90 belts, or whatever sized "A" belts your machine came with * .

Grainger sells their own brand of belts and those are OK if you need them quickly. Otherwise, McMaster-Carr sells them. As do most "motion" product sellers.

The belts should have the manufacturer's name (often "Browning") and "trade size" impressed upon the outside. A85 and A90 are actually a "trade size". The actual size is a bit different.

DO NOT substitute 4L belts as these are not intended to be ganged.

* A newer small-frame motor usually requires a longer belt than the older large-frame motor as the motor rides lower in the machine's base. The sizes I stated were A85 for the older large-frame motor and A90 for the newer small-frame motor. As might be imagined, small-frame motors were made in both 3 HP and 5 HP versions, but machines made during 1957 or later are usually 5 HP. The earlier machines are usually 3 HP.

The lock is both a "logical lock" as you put it, and also a physical lock - the "pin" I mentioned is substantial and does hold the spindle while you tighten things, spindle is D1-3 so no need to torque on or off a threaded chuck, I use it when tightening the Sjogren collet chuck.

Also on belts, since you have a modular drive check the dimensions before you order. Some modulars came with 3V900 belts - A series belts will interfere with each other. I found out the hard way, there is info if you search and I posted info here; Drive V belts - 3V900 on some Modular EE's

Paul

I would get a price on a cover, from someone. It looks like it is pretty rough

It appears the CEO of HGR read this thread and emailed me. He said he will check and see if he can find me another cover.

I began thinking about how to wire Lucille into my house tonight. i checked out this diagram on the inside cover

and it appears that everyone is correct, this is a two phase machine with a three phase coolant pump. That lead to other statements that i found in my search of this forum which states that this machine was available in a 220 and a 440 two phase configuration and it was one or the other, it couldn't be switched. so i did some searching and the only transformers i found with enough mass to handle the amps from either one of those circuits are at the base of the vacuum tubes. after looking at the label


i think its safe to say i have a 440 machine right? logic being, if it was a 220 machine, one transformer for each leg, the transformer would be 115 input volts. these transformers being 200 volts per leg tells me 440 machine. am i right or is there another step-up transformer somewhere in the line that i missed. the lighting is poor in my garage at the moment so its very hard to read the diagrams. that and i havn't read electrical schematics in many years, i forget what all the symbols are.


im also attaching other pics. looks like the two smaller transformers got hot at one point, i don't see anything other than a little discoloration on the insulation of the wire, most likely because of the oil so im not worried about it. and the controller switch for the coolant pump. it does look like the coolant pump is 3 phase, but with the price and hassle of building/buying a phase converter, i think i will just get another pump thats simply 110 and run it off a separate breaker somehow. i must look at the diagram again to see how in the world i would pull that one off.

Looks like you may have got lucky.
The second photo down, apears to be one of two filiment transformers just below the tubes, if that is correct, then the machine can be readily switched between high and low voltage source.
Though, the first thing to do is determine what voltage it is at now "low or high".

yes donie, that is the transformer that sits under the large tubes, i tend to agree, ive been reading this thread

Electrical idiot with a Wiad

and apparently on the one side of the transformer are different terminals to fine tune the voltage going into the tube. it looks like all i have to do is meter my voltage coming off of the electrical box, adjust the terminals on the two transformers to get the output as close to 2.5v without going over as i can and power her up.

i do have a coolant pump that is wired 3 phase, but worse comes to worse i will drop a sump into the tank or figure out what frame type the 3 phase motor is and replace it with a 2 phase motor.

Ok then, the big tranformers located in the back, can be wired either high or low, check those connections, that will tell where its at now quickly.

DAMN!!! i thought that gray box was the holding tank for the coolant. i didn't realize that there was another transformer the size of a small child in there!! i can't get into position to read any of the labels tonight, but there is a tag hanging off the transformer hand written that says 208V 3 phase so looks like i did get lucky. of course i will double check when i can move my shaper so can get a better look in there, but at first glance, im in good shape. just need to wait for my next pay day, get some new belts, a bit of oil and im good to go.