Heaters 10ee

Just bought a set of overload heaters to convert 440 to 220 on my 10ee. I AM NOT AN ELECTRIAN! but have a friend who is so I was trying to have everything I need before I call in the big guns. It"s my understanding I need to change the H1367 heaters to H1375. after removing the 440 heaters I see they are enclosed with plastic. The 220 heaters H1375 are just the heating coil witch attach with the 2 screws as did the #1375. My question is does the fact that the new heater will not be enclosed in plastic create any safety hazard?, or do I need to keep looking for different heaters? thanks

The non-enclosed heater coils are fine, that is the only kind I have seen.

Heaters are only one of the things to change. What else have you swapped, and are your transformers dual voltage or single? The CH 220V coils are very hard to find these days, so you might need to go a different direction (e.g. keep the 440V control circuit by using a small 220/440V control transformer, or go to a 110V control circuit, ...).

Thank you for the reply, I was surprised there haven't been more on this question. I guess people are tired of talking about this over and over. I did find a220 coil at Brazil Motors [ they had 1 used one] and I know you have to change the wiring on the motor to 220, but after reading on this forum I thought those 3 things were all I needed to change. Don't know about the transformers or even where they are. I have noticed a small transformer to the left of the starter. Thank you for your help.

Thank you for the reply. I was surprised there haven't been more on this question. I guess people are tired of talking about this over and over. I did find a 220coil at Brazil Motors[they had 1 used one] and I know you have to change the wiring to 220, but after reading on this forum I thought those 3 things were all I needed to change. Don't know about the transformers or even where they are. I have noticed a small transformer to the left of the starter. Thank you for your help.

Is your machine a WIAD or a Modular ? If a WIAD, the process is a tad more complicated as there are a couple of transformers that will need to be re strapped or replaced. I was fortunate to have a ex-US Navy machine that was capable to be configured to just about any voltage. You may not be so lucky. The two that come to mind are the filament transformer and the great big main transformer that sits in the lathe belly. Interestingly, my lathe was delivered set up for 440v but the heaters and control panel were for 220.

Sorry, I should have mentioned my machine is a 54 vintage square dial motor/generator that was in 440 service

Replace the coil, rewire the motor, change out one transformer and replace the heaters were all I did to my 54 square dial....

The bare wire heaters are fine...

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Thank you for the reply, could you tell me the location of the transformer....is it the one beside the starter?

djones3158 said:

Thank you for the reply, could you tell me the location of the transformer....is it the one beside the starter?

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Asking for the physical location of the transformer is probably not the right approach, there is a lot of variation in how these machines were wired. Better approach: get the wiring diagrams for your machine and trace them out. Monarch used to be able to supply the wiring diagrams for specific machines by serial number, but I do not know if that is still the case. Give them a call and find out.

djones3158 said:

Thank you for the reply, could you tell me the location of the transformer....is it the one beside the starter?

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The only transformer that a motor/generator (M/G) 10EE normally has is a small transformer mounted next to the main AC contactor (starter) in the compartment on the back of the headstock. It's sole purpose it to produce 6 VAC for the pilot light in the start button.

Sometimes when a machine is converted from 440 to 220 (or vise versa) a control transformer is added to allow the original AC contactor coil to be used with new voltage. These transformers are usually too large to fit in the contactor compartment.

Cal

thank you Cal....my Electrician pretty much told me the same thing about the transformer. I found one like the one someone posted on here a few months ago. It's a light duty transformer so I haven't decided to use it or not. Almost ready to call him in for hook up. I should be ready this month to give it a try!

Cal Haines said:

The only transformer that a motor/generator (M/G) 10EE normally has is a small transformer mounted next to the main AC contactor (starter) in the compartment on the back of the headstock. It's sole purpose it to produce 6 VAC for the pilot light in the start button.

Sometimes when a machine is converted from 440 to 220 (or vise versa) a control transformer is added to allow the original AC contactor coil to be used with new voltage. These transformers are usually too large to fit in the contactor compartment.

Cal

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Often there is an additional transformer located inside the headstock motor bay, right below the contactor shelf but on the inside.

However, multiply that number of configurations by at least two when you consider the different ways in which the control circuit was wired on a 10EE. If the lathe came with features that modified the wiring, sometimes the control circuit changed from low voltage to line voltage. An example is ELSR.

So getting the original wiring diagram from Monarch is still the best way to go forward.

As far as I know, Monarch didn't ship any motor/generator (MG) drive machines with the additional transformer you describe. But all bets are off as the machines are modified in service.

The feedback that I've gotten regarding wiring diagrams from Monarch for MG machines has not been good. Across all three major iterations of the MG drive there are probably ten different wiring diagrams (I have copies of seven of them), but Monarch appears to only send out two different diagrams. If you have a round-dial, they send you EE-2674 and for square-dials you get EE-3218.

Cal

Cal Haines said:

Across all three major iterations of the MG drive there are probably ten different wiring diagrams (I have copies of seven of them), but Monarch appears to only send out two different diagrams. If you have a round-dial, they send you EE-2674 and for square-dials you get EE-3218.

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Yah but.. the EE 2674 they send out isn't really.

Per the usual rev level notations, it replaced EE 2452, carried revisions forward, sez "REPLACED BY EE 3216" and.. see notations by "L.H", left of the info block, ON the drawing area, had also been, I'd expect included, EE 2359 and per that note had by 3-6-1944 - War Two still very much in-play, paper and time both scarce, and all hands worn and weary - become EE 3216, ergo spanning MG big-bang 'til last revision of MG.

IOW everything should "be there", somewhere on it as far as electron-pushing goes, physical arrangements, brand names, and other maker's P/N changes quite aside.

Or so it seems was the intent as-at March of 1944. By the time wartime stress had abated, round-dial was yesterday's product, resources would be concentrating on square-dial, even WiaD R&D.

The other drawings have gaps in EE P/N sequence, so "missing" intervening # EE 3217 during the round-dial to square-dial transition timeline / overlap may be irrelevant, not even an electrical drawing P/N atall.

Good as we are likely to get. Unless you want to host a from-scratch drawing project?

This thing COULD be made easier to read and use.