help ID Monarch lathe

Scrambled1981 · Apr 15, 2015

I got this lathe about a year ago, and it has been sitting in my shop collecting clutter on and around it.

When I got it, the motor contactor was missing. I am in the process of getting it working. I direct wired a plug to the motor, and it runs really smooth.

The ID plate was removed from the front for some reason. I am having a hard time ID the lathe. Any ideas?

So I have a few question if anyone has the time.

1- any idea of the model #? the distance from the center of the chuck to the top of the way is 10 inches. The distance from the end of the chuck to the end of the tail stock is 54 inches.

2- does the contactor need to be a standard contactor with overload, or a reversing contactor with an overload?

3- can I reverse direction of the chuck for using a die? either mechanical or electrical?

anything I need to look at before I start playing with it? What type of oil for the head?

thanks

Steve

Andy221 · Apr 15, 2015

I can give you a little bit of half @$$ info to tide you over until the experts come along. I believe its a C something model like a CK or CU or, something. And its a 16" or 18" model not 100% sure what the actual swings of those were. If it was a 61, 610, 612 type I could give you a little better info.

It might help everyone out if you get a pic of the disconnect box.

johnoder · Apr 16, 2015

It looks like my CW 16, which is only 9" flat way vertical to chuck C/L - I,E., actual swing is 18 1/2

The extra gizmo out front nay be drive for relieving attachment

The extra rod high up across face of bed is lead screw reverse, so it looks like a 16" CY - which would also be 9" vertical to chuck C/L

Yours is a tool room model with the collet rack

My CW 16 has a big tall electrical enclosure on back with stack style reversing starter and fwd/rev/stop push button station out front to operate it

Scrambled1981 · Apr 16, 2015

Johnoder- What is a relieving attachment? This lathe does have a taper attachment on the back side.

Andy221. The disconnect was empty. Only the disconnect and three fuses.

Steve

johnoder · Apr 16, 2015

It was common in living memory for good sized shops to make their own milling cutters/taps/counterbores etc - all of which need to be relieved to work right - so makers of lathes provided the means of doing this

In the simplest form, an attachment that replaced the normal compound slide with one that could be reciprocated by suitable cams/gearing

I expect the info tag on your lathe has some interesting related info.

Maker Hendey had several types that are addressed here if you have time to look through the pages

Old Hendey Op Man Scan Photos by johnoder | Photobucket

Scrambled1981 said:
Johnoder- What is a relieving attachment? This lathe does have a taper attachment on the back side.

Andy221. The disconnect was empty. Only the disconnect and three fuses.

Steve

Andy221 · Apr 16, 2015

I see, I'm not sure if there is a need to reverse the motor on these or not. If you want to reverse the motor you will need a reversing starter. They usually come with overloads.

You will also need 120 volts for the starter and control.

Scrambled1981 · Apr 16, 2015

Andy221- I just want to make sure if I use reversing contractors, I won't break anything in the lathe . I read somewhere some are not designed to run in reverse.

Steve

Andy221 · Apr 16, 2015

Oh ok, never mind then lol. Sorry I cant help.

johnoder · Apr 16, 2015

Take cover off head stock and look at the big hefty dog clutches that do the shifting. On my CW16 you can plainly see there is "more engagement" for forward than reverse - likely to make shifting easier. When I run the CW in reverse, I just make sure it is staying in the speed selected. Shifting linkage on these 70 year olds isn't always perfect

Looks like this with cover off

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/Monarch/DCP_0829.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/Monarch/DCP_0830.jpg

Scrambled1981 said:
Andy221- I just want to make sure if I use reversing contractors, I won't break anything in the lathe . I read somewhere some are not designed to run in reverse.

Steve

Scrambled1981 · Apr 16, 2015

Johnoder - I will try to take the cover off tomorrow, but it will more likely be Saturday. I will take pictures.

matt_isserstedt · Apr 17, 2015

I would just go with a simple NEMA 1 contactor with 110vac control voltage. Usually find these good used on ebay.

Also a control transformer from 230 to 110vac of about 100VA or 100W. The idea is to run the controls on 110vac which I feel is safer.

If the start-stop buttons are not working right, a couple of 800T switches from Allen Bradley and a 2TZ box to mount them in makes everything happy again.

You have to ask yourself how often reverse is going to be used....recall you can always stop, disconnect power, and then reverse any two leads on the incoming 3 poles and you suddenly have reverse. Very rarely does this need come up in my shop, plenty of stuff to do though on normal rotation turning and facing.

If reverse is still important then you want a reversing starter. You can make your own but you need at minimum an electrical interlock between the two contactors, its a normally closed (NC) auxiliary contact that must appear on each starter so that they both cannot be engaged at the same time..

Overload heaters are OK but if you are running a rotary or static phase converter you might have to defeat it, because its already in the mode which the overload is designed to detect.

Nice Mazak, btw, is it a 10N ATC/MC?

Scrambled1981 · Apr 17, 2015

Matt- for the most part, we don't make a lot of stuff on the lathe.

Right now, I need to make about 20 sets of 1 inch x 2.5 inch pins for hinges we make. They are simple to make. I have a die holder that is used to thread the pin on the one end. The die holder is the reason I need reverse.

The mazak is a qt15. It lost its parameters, and I have not been able to reload them. I have to pull the cpu rack and send it to Mitsubishi.

Steve

Scrambled1981 · Apr 17, 2015

How can I figure out what taper is used on the tail stock ?

Steve

johnoder · Apr 17, 2015

How can I figure out what taper is used on the tail stock ?

On Edit, here is a similar age, similar size brochure which states tail stock taper:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/johnoder/library/Monarch 16 W

Its #4 Morse Taper

Here are some dimensions - check it out

Standard Tapers

Scrambled1981 · Apr 22, 2015

Next question.

My 230 to120 volt transformer finally came in.

Does anyone know how I need to wire the start , stop push buttons, the transformer, and the motor starter?

The contactor has a 120 volt coil, and a normally open and a normally closed aux contacts.

Steve

matt_isserstedt · Apr 23, 2015

Here is a very simplistic diagram for a single stop-start. I have another wiring diagram hosted somewhere showing reversing starters but all the google links to the old site seem to be broken, in other words, google knows next to nothing about practical machinist now after the reboot.

Scrambled1981 · Apr 23, 2015

We got the lathe going, and did some test cuts on aluminum and 304 stainless.

Everything turned out really well.

We also removed the top cover and checked the gears and oil. The gears were in good shape, and the oil was not dirty or burnt. The oilers were also working.

So I have some questions

1. Is there a index scale for the long axis? This one has a scale for the cross axis, and it is very accurate, but nothing for the long axis.

2. Is there a lock mechanism for the compound slide?

3. There is a clutch in the gearbox that is connected to a shaft. What is the purpose of this shaft? It does not appear to disengage .

4. There is a note on the head that lists the feeds and speeds, it says to drift the clutch when changing to higher speeds. What does that mean?

Here is a few pictures

Steve

johnoder · Apr 24, 2015

3. There is a clutch in the gearbox that is connected to a shaft. What is the purpose of this shaft? It does not appear to disengage .

If you refer to the linkage in the two photos, that is what works the main clutch at the left end of the lathe - it stops and starts the spindle. Not sure how you ran the lathe without knowing about the main clutch and its functioning. You do know when the motor is running the spindle can be stopped? This is incidentally where the DRIFTING comes in - you can lightly slip the clutch to assist in changing gears for the spindle speeds.

Edit In photo main clutch lever lower right in cropped photo. And here is a linked photo of my CW16 main clutch lever assembly - it bolts to bottom face of bed casting. The cross shaft heads back to the linkage in your photos:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/Monarch/DCP_0285.jpg

If you do not have an operating/instruction manual, private message me with your email address and I'll send one for a CW 16, which will be similar.

Scrambled1981 · Apr 24, 2015

John-

My email is removed..

It would be great if you could send me a manual.

We were turning the power off, then changing whatever we were trying. Then powering it back up. It was crude but worked. The clutch would be easier.

Thanks

Steve

moonlight machine · Apr 24, 2015

I think you should just sell me that old Mazak and let me worry about those pesky parameters.

help ID Monarch lathe

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