How does this work?

Jimbojet · Aug 17, 2015

How does the Monarch carriage stop work?

Time for everyone to have a good laugh on me, because I don't know what this gadget does. I can see it's some sort of stop, but does it do anything useful like disengaging the feed? I am afraid to try finding out "the hard way"...

Milacron · Aug 17, 2015

Meaningless topic title

The real Leigh · Aug 17, 2015

Jimbojet said:
Time for everyone to have a good laugh on me, because I don't know what this gadget does. I can see it's some sort of stop, but does it do anything useful like cutting the feed? I am afraid to try finding out "the hard way"...

You should go back and edit the title of your first post to
"How Does the Monarch carriage stop work?"
or something similar, otherwise the boss might close the thread.

Using meaningful thread titles is very important.
Of course, if you don't know what something is, composing a "meaningful" title can be a challenge.

From all appearances it's the standard carriage "stop" on a Monarch 10EE.

Rotate the handle at the left end to a vertical position to move it left and right, then return the handle to horizontal. There are internal stops every inch so it will move left until it hits the stop.

It's designed to work with a micrometer head mounted on its right-hand end, and a dial indicator mounted on the carriage. You can easily get .001" accuracy anywhere within the length of the rod.

Here's a photo of the dial indicator that mounts on the left side of the saddle:

10ee%20micrometer%20carriage%20stop%202x.jpg

I've only seen manual stop versions of this, like the one on my 10EE.
If there are automatic ones I've not encountered same.

- Leigh

Jimbojet · Aug 17, 2015

Thanks for that info Leigh.

The real Leigh · Aug 17, 2015

I see you changed the title as I suggested, but the wrong title.

You need to edit the first post, then click on Go Advanced below the text edit window.

That should enable you to edit the thread title rather than the particular post title.

- Leigh

rke[pler · Aug 17, 2015

Jimbojet said:
Time for everyone to have a good laugh on me, because I don't know what this gadget does. I can see it's some sort of stop, but does it do anything useful like disengaging the feed? I am afraid to try finding out "the hard way"...

You can rotate the bar 90 degrees and push it lengthwise, then rotate back and it'll snap into one of the slots. I once checked mine and it was good for .001" in length between slots. Generally the end near the carriage has either a small micrometer head (Lufkin 680B, Starrett 823? will also work) or a simple stop to engage the other end, mounted on the carriage. The carriage end has one of a simple stop, a dial indicator as pictures above or a 4 position stop itself with 4 micrometer heads.

Certainly on the square dial the bar is simply a bar and doesn't affect the drive. Maybe on others there's some function but I've never seen it.

old_dave · Aug 17, 2015

rke[pler said:
You can rotate the bar 90 degrees and push it lengthwise, then rotate back and it'll snap into one of the slots. I once checked mine and it was good for .001" in length between slots. Generally the end near the carriage has either a small micrometer head (Lufkin 680B, Starrett 823? will also work) or a simple stop to engage the other end, mounted on the carriage. The carriage end has one of a simple stop, a dial indicator as pictures above or a 4 position stop itself with 4 micrometer heads.

Certainly on the square dial the bar is simply a bar and doesn't affect the drive. Maybe on others there's some function but I've never seen it.

I can confirm that the Starrett 823 head will work and, of course, has the advantage of being in current production.
David

skydawg · Aug 18, 2015

How does the Starrett 823 mount to the rod? Thanks.

Jimbojet · Aug 18, 2015

The real Leigh said:
I see you changed the title as I suggested, but the wrong title.

You need to edit the first post, then click on Go Advanced below the text edit window.

That should enable you to edit the thread title rather than the particular post title.

- Leigh

Sorry for the lame thread title, but I see no way to fix it myself. The software does not give me the choice to edit my first post again -- the "edit" choice does not appear there (although it does appear on my second post). Maybe my lowly member status does not qualify for that capability?

I will do better next time!

The real Leigh · Aug 18, 2015

Jimbojet said:
Sorry for the lame thread title, but I see no way to fix it myself.

Not a problem.

You put it in the right section.

If it had been in General, the boss probably would have locked it.

Thanks.

- Leigh

Cal Haines · Aug 18, 2015

I think that you can only edit your posts for 24 hours after posting.

Cal

old_dave · Aug 18, 2015

skydawg said:
How does the Starrett 823 mount to the rod? Thanks.

To begin, the manual for my 1977 10EE uses the term "micrometer stop bar". I also have a reproduction of the manual/parts list for the round dial 10EE; it uses the term "stop rod" and shows an accompanying micrometer head.

The "micrometer stop bar" is internally threaded 5/16-48. The micrometer head for the Starrett 823 tubular inside micrometer is threaded 5/16-48 on both ends so you simply screw the appropriate end in to the end of the "micrometer stop bar" and screw an anvil (several are supplied with the micrometer) to the other end.

BTW on my 10EE the notches on the micrometer stop bar are spaced every half inch.

David

rimcanyon · Aug 18, 2015

Some of the photos in 10EE sales brochures show a micrometer head on the stop bar, others show a non-adjustable stop. Early round dials did not have a stop rod, but used a bed stop. Later 10EEs could use either, the bed stop and the stop rod were both standard equipment.

The real Leigh · Aug 18, 2015

rimcanyon said:
Some of the photos in 10EE sales brochures show a micrometer head on the stop bar, others show a non-adjustable stop.

There were several different stop arrangements.

The non-adjustable bar was used with the four-thimble micrometers that mount on the carriage.
Obviously you could not mount four thimbles on the stop rod.

There was also a single-thimble head that mounted on the carriage, for use if the non-thimble stop rod was installed and the four-thimble was not wanted.

- Leigh

Fal Grunt · Aug 19, 2015

My understanding, which may be wrong, was that some of the later model tool room lathes, had "kickout" functions for the feed. Model 60/61/62/71? I looked at a model 61 with a friend who pointed out two bars that came from the carriage. One went into the gear box the other was a hard stop in front of the gear box. I thought he said the one was to kick the lathe out during threading, the other was to kick the lathe out during feed.

Incorrect? I would be happy to be corrected!

I believed that if the bigger lathes had those options, it was possible for the smaller lathes to have similar options.

Ray Behner · Aug 19, 2015

Fal Grunt said:
My understanding, which may be wrong, was that some of the later model tool room lathes, had "kickout" functions for the feed. Model 60/61/62/71? I looked at a model 61 with a friend who pointed out two bars that came from the carriage. One went into the gear box the other was a hard stop in front of the gear box. I thought he said the one was to kick the lathe out during threading, the other was to kick the lathe out during feed.

Incorrect? I would be happy to be corrected!

I believed that if the bigger lathes had those options, it was possible for the smaller lathes to have similar options.

I have often wondered why the Monarch 10EE didn't have a kick out on the long or cross feed.
Yes, my question as well. Did the bigger units have this feature?

Cal Haines · Aug 19, 2015

Ray Behner said:
I have often wondered why the Monarch 10EE didn't have a kick out on the long or cross feed.
Yes, my question as well. Did the bigger units have this feature?

Some round-dial 10EEs were made with a "Mechanical Leadscrew Reverse" option, which just kicked out the dog clutch on the spindle; it wasn't terribly successful and I don't know of any machines that have one that's operational. There were also "Electric Leadscrew Reverse" options available on both the round- and square-dial machines. They basically just shut down the spindle motor when the stop was reached and they work pretty well, particularly the square-dial version.

Cal

DaveE907 · Aug 20, 2015

One error stated above was not corrected. Square dial stop rods have detents at 0.500 inch intervals and from the factory were well within 0.001 inch tolerance. Measured them as an assignment in 1963 while at NASA. The suggested inside micrometer heads have only a 0.5 inch range so the implementation is obvious.

It really doesn't matter particularly how those stop rods were intended in anything but a production environment which none of these machines are used for now.

Measured some of those stop rods long ago and they were lots closer to a few tenths for spacing than a rough thousandth.

One thing to look for in evaluating a 10EE I never hear mentioned is the stop rod. It can physically crash the machine under both power feed and during threading operation. It will mushroom the notch in the stop bar and break the pawl mechanism within the housing that beautiful knob sits upon. Broken stuff will be within that beautiful housing. Been there done that, be careful out there.

How does this work?

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