How much does a 13x30 Series (aka Model) 60 weigh?

5600 lbs., according to the official Question Answerer at Monarch. FYI for posterity. Strangely, I ordered the manual for a cool Benjamin hoping for this very detail and this information wasn't included in said manual.

Also my machine has a lever on top of the headstock which is, apparently, part of a collet closer. Unfortunately the rest of the parts which would make this a valuable addition to the machine didn't make it along with the rest of the lathe during the auction. Sigh. If anyone has these bits and is willing to part with them, please contact me.

I scoured the interwebs for quite some time trying to find a PDF copy of the manual, and came up dry. In this day and age it's a shame we still have to spend this kind of money for some not-frankly-impressive and blurry photocopies of photocopies. The parts list and diagrams are clear and helpful, I'll say that. And I'm grateful that Monarch still exists, and that they still support old machines with parts stock.

But I can't help but feel a bit put off by this experience. A few items:

The cover of the manual says it's a Model 60, but the actual manual provided is for a Model 61.

Yes, maybe there are only a few minor differences, but for a full hundred bucks you'd expect the actual manual for your model - one of the major reasons for buying it in the first place. Or at least include a sheet of differences specified between the two models for the benefit of the owner. If Monarch wants to help the home gamer and old metal enthusiast who is trying to preserve their very own history by saving their machines from the scrappers (I paid just over scrap price for it, so it'd probably be on its way to China for conversion to "new junk" by now if I hadn't bid on it!), they should by now be able to supply digital PDFs of these manuals for substantially lower cost. As it is, I paid almost another eighth of the total cost of the machine itself for this manual.

During my follow-up question email, I also asked what the difference is between the Model 60 and 61. Here's the official response, also for posterity:

"early 60’s had open gearbox."

I don't even know what that means, and have no pictures or explanations to go by in my official manual. So mine must be a "late 60" because I see no open gearbox?

Just venting a bit, and calling it as I see it. YMMV.

I don't even know what that means

Click to expand...

Referring to QC gear box. My '47 Monarch CW 16 has an open one. I can crouch down with a flash light and see the gears in there. To at least SOME lathe makers, this was too antique and they made the QC gear box CLOSED

This dreadfully neglected ATW Pacemaker has one such

32x1�� American pacemaker lathe - tools - by owner - sale

There is no way you can peak in and see the gears

We're lucky they are still in business at all. I cringed at the price until I realized the service and parts they still provide.
I know it's frighteningly expensive, but I wouldn't have a running 60 without them.

Basically, 60 and 61 are the same, and they always send the 61 manual (part numbers don't work from the Series 60 manual, which I also have).

johnoder said:

Referring to QC gear box. My '47 Monarch CW 16 has an open one. I can crouch down with a flash light and see the gears in there. To at least SOME lathe makers, this was too antique and they made the QC gear box CLOSED

This dreadfully neglected ATW Pacemaker has one such

32x1�� American pacemaker lathe - tools - by owner - sale

There is no way you can peak in and see the gears

Click to expand...

I knew which lathe you meant before I opened the link, such a sad sight.

Cole2534 said:

I knew which lathe you meant before I opened the link, such a sad sight.

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I like to think of all the gear shop jewelry in there, perfect, oily - wondering when it will get to work some more

johnoder said:

I like to think of all the gear shop jewelry in there, perfect, oily - wondering when it will get to work some more

Click to expand...

Any idea what that one weighs? 15-18K?

Parts I know are expensive, as they are valuable physical items which cost real money to keep in inventory. Manuals today are usually free PDFs. "Kids" like myself are used to them being gratis - an included part of the purchase, or easily available online. Spoiled brats that we are. Just whining a bit to ease the sting of the $175 flying out of my back pocket. ($100 for the 60 and $75 for the 10EE)

Cole2534 said:

Any idea what that one weighs? 15-18K?

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Probably nearer 18K. I think that is a version of the "bigger" 25, which is quite a whopper - like with 600 top end. Also a tracer lathe - needing a regular compound - though it looks like the cross slide could be used as normal.

I don't know if this is a style F or G

Boxelder said:

Parts I know are expensive, as they are valuable physical items which cost real money to keep in inventory. Manuals today are usually free PDFs. "Kids" like myself are used to them being gratis - an included part of the purchase, or easily available online. Spoiled brats that we are. Just whining a bit to ease the sting of the $175 flying out of my back pocket. ($100 for the 60 and $75 for the 10EE)

Click to expand...

I bet if you bought a new 10EE from Monarch you would get a free manual.

Boxelder said:

Parts I know are expensive, as they are valuable physical items which cost real money to keep in inventory. Manuals today are usually free PDFs. "Kids" like myself are used to them being gratis - an included part of the purchase, or easily available online. Spoiled brats that we are. Just whining a bit to ease the sting of the $175 flying out of my back pocket. ($100 for the 60 and $75 for the 10EE)

Click to expand...

Wait until you get your copy and it's all Zerox copied fuzz that you can barely read! That's how my 10EE manual came!
Don't worry, I know how you feel. I just value Monarch still existing.

Oh ewlsey, you witty scamp!

johnoder said:

Referring to QC gear box. My '47 Monarch CW 16 has an open one. I can crouch down with a flash light and see the gears in there. To at least SOME lathe makers, this was too antique and they made the QC gear box CLOSED

This dreadfully neglected ATW Pacemaker has one such

32x1�� American pacemaker lathe - tools - by owner - sale

There is no way you can peak in and see the gears

Click to expand...

Good lord thats a monster.

And here I thought my pacemaker, that was sitting outside unprotected for who know how many years, was ugly looking.....

Real shame to see it sitting like that.

I have a model 60 monarch, 1953 model, and it does not have the reversing contactor for the spindle motor. As far as I have determined, model 61 has the reversing contactor with corresponding extra button at the control panel. My model 60 does have the closed gearbox, so that is not a way to determine a model 60 from a 61

Dale Nelson

Interesting. Funny how you can get data directly from the manufacturer which doesn't quite tell the full story.

I don't suppose you want to sell the steady rest???

Never hurts to ask, does it?

In fact, I'm on the hunt now for the collet closer accessories myself. Trying to get it back to where it once was... If only they'd all stayed together for the past 63 years!

And if there's such a thing as a follow rest for it, well by golly I want that too.

Has anyone ever tried making an aluminum casting of a steady rest? If someone would like to make a mold for a casting, I'd let them use the steady rest to make them. Might be something to consider.

Boxelder said:

Parts I know are expensive, as they are valuable physical items which cost real money to keep in inventory. Manuals today are usually free PDFs. "Kids" like myself are used to them being gratis - an included part of the purchase, or easily available online. Spoiled brats that we are. Just whining a bit to ease the sting of the $175 flying out of my back pocket. ($100 for the 60 and $75 for the 10EE)

Click to expand...

A .pdf doesn't go to the original files, look up your specific S/N, and provide the info on the weird on-off custom order it may have been when it left the factory. Or not.

That $75 or $100 wasn't for Xeroxing. S/N specific research work was done, too.

Well if they're for my specific machines, they did a very poor job of it. One manual provided says Model 60 on the front cover, but after the generic unloading-and-lubrication (and almost unreadable, thanks to the copies-of-copies-of-copies phenomenon) they included the manual to a Model 61. As I said in the first post, I understand that they're very nearly the same machine, but you absolutely cannot say that it's the exact correct one for my particular machine, either.

And there was no information whatsoever on the collet closer handle, which was apparently an add-on when NASA ordered it. I had to email and ask about it, and only then did they send the drafting pages of the collet closer setup. Which I could have done for zero cost, as well as obtain the weight - these two items were a very large part of why I ordered the "original" manual in the first place.

Another reason I ordered both manuals was that I was kinda spoiled by the ridiculously awesome manual which the fella who sold me 10EE #6642 received from Monarch. As you saw in the pictures I posted on that thread, it had the original order options list and other tasty data. No such thing arrived with the Model 60 (Ahem - Model 61) manual I received. Nor with the other manual I ordered at the same time for my other NASA auction purchase, the "rust bucket" 10EE. Just the generic info.

Both manuals I received seemed truly slapped together with interchangeable Xeroxed components (the unloading/lube portion of severely reduced quality), with none of the S/N specific research I saw included with the manual I received with 6642. So that's why I'm bitching. There was no order sheet, no accessories list, no info about the accessories ordered. Basically, a generic manual downloadable from vintagemachinery.org would have been just as useful to me as what I received from Monarch - and I could have printed it at home and saved, oh, about $170.

So I'm left feeling severely underwhelmed with the purchase.

I realize I'm now seen as a wandering heathen in the land of the Monarch baptized-and-saved here, but I'm not trying to kill off anyone's sacred cow - in fact I'm trying to support Monarch by saving their truly beautiful metallic artwork from the scrap heap. And I'm sure I'll be needing some original replacement parts at some point, so I'm really very glad and truly impressed that they still support their older products. I salivate at the thought of turning my first part on that sweet 60.

But I also need to call a spade a spade when it's appropriate. I'm left feeling a bit ripped off by the manuals experience.

If you're this worked up about the cost of a manual, wait until you see the cost for those replacement parts...