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Just bought Old Monarch lathe to restore.

Weerry

Plastic
Joined
Sep 17, 2017
Hello Everyone on PM. My name is Derek. I recently bought an old Monarch lathe. I just want to say I am not a expert machinist by any means. But I am a professional Welder and own my own business. I do have machining experience. I came here to learn more about the craft and to learn more about restoring this old piece of machinery. I chose PM to be able to learn from the best, the old timers that have been doing this line of work before i was even born.


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I am still trying to locate serial numbers for the machine. I can already tell that the cross slide in going to need a new nut and screw made for it lots of play. Estimating 0.070 to 0.100 of play haven't indicated it yet.

I know these older plain bearing lathes used oil cup. Some one at some point put a grease zerk on the rear bearing and filled it full of grease. Im pretty sure that is not factory at all? My plan for the machine is to get it torn down and cleaned really good to inspect it. I only paid $800 for it.

What size motor should be on these? There is a brand new 1 1/2 HP 3650RPM motor on it now. It spins way to fast even in low gear on the drive transmission from the quick power up I did when I bought it. I will post pictures as I go along.

And i posted some pictures of some of my work.




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Thanks for the welcome and the link. I found that here in an old post and have been reading though it. Most of the Taper attachment is there just missing the Bar and the Half Dog. I will get more pictures today when i go to the shop.
 
Some one at some point put a grease zerk on the rear bearing and filled it full of grease

Oil - and the right oil for machine tools. Snug fitting plain spindle bearings like Mobil Velocite 10 and any oil feed devices such as felts, oil grooves and the like need to be in first class condition
 
Oil - and the right oil for machine tools. Snug fitting plain spindle bearings like Mobil Velocite 10 and any oil feed devices such as felts, oil grooves and the like need to be in first class condition

I pulled the front bearing cap off yesterday. And it looked pretty good on the inside. No discoloring and looked pretty smooth. I didn't find any shims under the cap when removing? Makes me think it hasnst been messed with. But the cap bolts where not very tight at all barley more then finger tight. From reading on here I find 5ftlbs seems to be about right on plain bearing machines? I will have to check the play in the spindle. When I remove the chuck.

Having never really messed with this old of a machine. I'm going to assume that the spindle threads are left hand since it would tighten as you used it?? And what would be the best way to remove the chuck from the spindle? It looks like it hasn't been off in many many years. I used heat alot to get stuff loose. But since it's so close to that bearing I don't want to risk damaging it or the shaft.
 
No such thing as torque wrenches when it was made.:D

Since TOP of spindle ordinarily turns towards you, it has to be right hand threads to stay tight

Good generic old lathe info may be of some use:

http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_1of2.pdf

http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_2of2.pdf



I pulled the front bearing cap off yesterday. And it looked pretty good on the inside. No discoloring and looked pretty smooth. I didn't find any shims under the cap when removing? Makes me think it hasnst been messed with. But the cap bolts where not very tight at all barley more then finger tight. From reading on here I find 5ftlbs seems to be about right on plain bearing machines? I will have to check the play in the spindle. When I remove the chuck.

Having never really messed with this old of a machine. I'm going to assume that the spindle threads are left hand since it would tighten as you used it?? And what would be the best way to remove the chuck from the spindle? It looks like it hasn't been off in many many years. I used heat alot to get stuff loose. But since it's so close to that bearing I don't want to risk damaging it or the shaft.
 
The greased spindle bearing is probably worn out. however, you can run it with a higher viscosity oil to compensate until you decide what to do with it.

I am running low viscosity atf in my south bend 9 spindle bearing (1.815 inch diameter, 2.25 inches long, vertical clearance is 1.5 thousandths), its viscosity is 6cst at 100C vs the 4cst that velocite 10 is at the same temperature. However many others have reported using 10w30 engine oil in the same spindle and its viscosity is 12cst at 100C, but they probably don't make a habit of running it at 1500 rpm either, and at that rpm my spindle warms up by perhaps 20F.


If you can't get the spindle bearings fixed for whatever reason, then i would recommend using the thickest oil that does not heat up at the rpms you intend to use the lathe at, so 20w-50 is appropriate if you can't get rid of say, .005-.01" of slop in the bearing. --though its going to heat up regardless according to the load, and friction, eccentricity and whatever else is going on.

more clearance and thicker oil makes for more friction than thinner oil and lower clearance. but you can't use thin oil in a high clearance bearing... this is why automobile engines are starting to use very close fits on the bearings and 0w-20 oil. but once those bearings wear out you would need to use thicker oil to prevent a destructive spiral from occurring.
 
i have this very same lathe ser number is on tailstock end of bed between the ways on the left side when standing at end facing chuck mine was number 7 of lot number 95 made in 10/31/16 monarch sent me copy of original shipping ticket sold to vongutt machine indy. mine has taper attachment look knob behind chuck pull out twist to free wheel chuck before engaging back gear Jon in ky
 
Thank you all that replied. Lots of good info! Got some more pictures of it.

The only numbers I found on the bed are the ones in the pictures. Looks like (R LOT 96 No.3) and just #3 on the other side.

That is what the front bearing and shaft looks like. I'm going to clean it up really good with brake cleaner and put some plastia gauge to check clearance. What should the clearances be in something like this? Something similar to bearing clearances on crankshaft? I have not pulled the rear bearing cap off yet.

And the last picture is of the tag on the 4 speed gear box. No other numbers or tags on it. What type of oil should be in something like this ND 30W would be my guess?

If the bearing clearances are way out of spec. Would it be possible to have bearings line bored just enough to clean them up? And then have the shaft bearing surfaces built up with metalizing spray and turned to proper size. Then lap fitted and shim the bearing caps to obtain running clearances? I am just thinking out loud here so forgive me if I'm way off base. Im thinking of it like an automotive stand point. I have rebuilt my fare share of engines.



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that,s your numbers mine is lot( 95) SHIPPED IN 10-30-1916 MINE HAS A LIMA-DRIVE. SHIMS UNDER BEARING CAPS IF I TAKE THEM OUT IT WILL NOT TURN. IF I TRY TO TORQUE them lock up just snug as it wears then snug. contact monarch like i did they sent me a copy of original invoice and old advertisement for it .the two star shaped knobs are clutches one for cross other for long feed keep both loose till you need i tightened both at same time years ago twisted shaft in an instant made new one round pin on apron pulls out to free up apron
 
Forget all the engine stuff. The spindle bearings simply need THE LEAST clearance possible that still allows them to turn freely. Its intended to be a lathe that actually can make round parts within very small limits. Extra slop in bearings does nothing like what is wanted and you are not fighting combustion heat. - so why have it? Such lathes DO NOT go fast, so that isn't much of a heat contributor, either. That Monarch needs to stay under 500 RPM. Since I think the "R" is actually a "B", you have an 18" lathe that needs to go slower yet. (The "A" lathes were 14 or 16")

The gear box is a lot like any antique standard transmission (less synchros) - put that kind of oil in it - or lighter if you like and it does not contribute to leaking out

Thumbnail is your "B"spindle. The spindle nose thread is 2 3/4"-6. The spindle taper is Morse #5. See if the 3" matches your front bearing diameter



Thank you all that replied. Lots of good info! Got some more pictures of it.

The only numbers I found on the bed are the ones in the pictures. Looks like (R LOT 96 No.3) and just #3 on the other side.

That is what the front bearing and shaft looks like. I'm going to clean it up really good with brake cleaner and put some plastia gauge to check clearance. What should the clearances be in something like this? Something similar to bearing clearances on crankshaft? I have not pulled the rear bearing cap off yet.

And the last picture is of the tag on the 4 speed gear box. No other numbers or tags on it. What type of oil should be in something like this ND 30W would be my guess?

If the bearing clearances are way out of spec. Would it be possible to have bearings line bored just enough to clean them up? And then have the shaft bearing surfaces built up with metalizing spray and turned to proper size. Then lap fitted and shim the bearing caps to obtain running clearances? I am just thinking out loud here so forgive me if I'm way off base. Im thinking of it like an automotive stand point. I have rebuilt my fare share of engines.
 

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you are right that,s the way mine is not fast but put a load on it it just growls litter deeper. mine is 18x64 just allow for a little slop you can make dam fine parts
 
i will check it and post numbers. lady at monarch told me letters were for who inspected quality sort of thing
 
You might start with cleaning the bearing with some mineral spirits. Don't clean too much as the old oil stain is good. check to see the hold down bolts are as long as they can be with not bottoming out and in good thread condition.. Mark the shaft with some sharpy lines front and back, oil the bearing with 10 or 20 weight lubrication oil, then tighten caps with no shims up to a one hand pull with a standard length wrench to see a free hand-spinning spindle go to tight (*stop drawing up if it begins going tight before full one hand tight). Turn spindle a turn or two if you can by hand (may have to back off the hold downs. Then tear down to see a little rub mark on the bearing or shaft..Doing that should/will tell the bearing is good to shim to the correct clearance.

I would not abrasive paper or stone the bearing or spindle.. a flat blade can remove high ridges just down to witness marks of original old oil stain marking that is best left there IMHO. Yes a hard India stone could be used but not a soft stone..I would not stone.

likely you may need .002 to .005 clearance with shims installed..*best to find an old manual to not set to tight. Might set at target and run perhaps 500 rpm to see a little heat rise at a half hour..

It was common but poor practice to grease and run lose for faster RPM..perhaps running small parts or aluminum..

QT: [What size motor should be on these?] likely a 3hp x 1800 if you have the amps for that.. 3 would still be small for what that girl could pull.

Nothing wrong running small parts slow RPM.. It just takes a little more time..yes aluminum does not like slow..

Abrasive paper finishing it is good to use your wife's best towels to cover the machine works.

QT: [Would it be possible to have bearings line bored just enough to clean them up? or build up the shaft) I would blue in fit if needed and their is stock to add shim for clearance..If you bring down the caps with no shims and the shaft is lose then come back for more advice from the PM guys.

An Ok fits source General Tolerance Table Charts for Standard Shaft Hole Fits | Engineers Edge
 
Great info! This is why i joined PM lots of knowledgeable people who know this old equipment!! I emailed Monarch today with the numbers I found. Haven't got a response from them yet.

I didn't have a whole lot of time to mess with it today. I was able to get the rear bearing cab off and it looks smoother then the front. Didn't check clearances yet. The rough looking spots on the split line where on there when I slid the cap off. I cleaned most of the old grease off and oiled both with fresh 10wt I had laying around.

The back cap didn't seem to have any shims or shim paper either. How tight should I make the locking rings? My guess is just enough to eliminate end play and then install the locking ring?

Once i get this lathe off of my trailer and in its proper spot I will really tear into it and get it cleaned. So that's its for today. I will keep posting when i do more cleaning and can get some critical measurements. Thanks again guys!



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I live in Enid. And it seems like when I try to post it always say a mod has to approve it. Is that just a thing for new users? (It only seems the happen when I try and post pictures.)



What part of Oklahoma are you in?
 
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likely you may need .002 to .005 clearance with shims installed..*best to find an old manual to not set to tight. Might set at target and run perhaps 500 rpm to see a little heat rise at a half hour..

I will shoot for this clearance after clean up and I pick up shim stock. The rear bearing looks better then the front one. Its smoother anyway.

It was common but poor practice to grease and run lose for faster RPM..perhaps running small parts or aluminum..

This makes since to me seeing as they have a high speed motor installed on it.

QT: [What size motor should be on these?] likely a 3hp x 1800 if you have the amps for that.. 3 would still be small for what that girl could pull.

Amps and power are no problem in this shop. It has low voltage 3phase(230) I have been looking on CL for a used 3hp or 5hp. They seem to be the most common on there.

Abrasive paper finishing it is good to use your wife's best towels to cover the machine works.

If I had an old lady I would for sure use the best towel lol!!
 








 
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