Lifting 10EE

I have been on the South Bend forum and the non-existant Barber Colman forum for years, now moving into the 10EE world.

I am getting a 10EE and my plan is to use one of the heavy duty semi wreckers to lift the machine onto a trailer to get it home. Using this method of lifting from the Monarch manual, what size piece of wood should I use under the bed? Is one piece of 4x4 enough? 2 pieces? a 4x6....

Thanks John

4x4 should be plenty. I threw a strap around the webbing of mine to lift it. Just balanced with the carriage and tail stock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

depends some on the trailer, but even a sheet of 3/4 plywood should support with decent undersupport, plywood so it does not slide so easy. some have built elaborate skids.... and even a somewhat normal wrecker should be able to move a 10ee comfortably- its not 31,000 lbs after all

Scott, Thanks. So you are saying that I can use the web and it will balance reasonably well with the carriage and tailstock at the far end?

Yes, my bed is the 30" But if I remember correctly there was plenty of adjustment for balancing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bll230 said:

I have been on the South Bend forum and the non-existant Barber Colman forum for years, now moving into the 10EE world.

I am getting a 10EE and my plan is to use one of the heavy duty semi wreckers to lift the machine onto a trailer to get it home. Using this method of lifting from the Monarch manual, what size piece of wood should I use under the bed? Is one piece of 4x4 enough? 2 pieces? a 4x6....

Thanks John

Click to expand...

No timber under the bed at all. Monarch did not have the straps we have now back in 1939-40-something when they published those illustrations.

Now we do.

You overhead-lift a 10EE by passing a stout strap 6,000 lb rated or better - down through the bed just ahead of the spindle nose, around that stout first casting web and back up.

Use a 'chocker' from hook to leftmost HS end, all covers OFF, optionally add another from hook to TS end. Test that the lift will remain level while still only inches off the deck, lower and adjust until it is level and stable.

DO NOT 'trust' only to balance. That carriage you thought was locked, or the TS you SHOULD HAVE removed but did not, can surprise you.

Done right, there is no lifting gear that can shift. No lifting gear outside the bed. No damage to levers and handwheels. Nothing that can cut the strap.

Don't forget to 'mouse' the hook, and mouse it WELL..

With any decent wrecker hand on the con-trols, yer good to go.

About as trouble-free a way to move a 10EE as can be had, so long as one dasn't swing it around carelessly and prang sumthin' with it as if it were a wrecking ball..

I have two 6000 pound straps. It will certainly make it easier to use the bed web. When you say choker the second strap to the left end of the headstock, do you mean loop around the spindle, or is there another point that can be wrapped around?

bll230 said:

I have two 6000 pound straps. It will certainly make it easier to use the bed web. When you say choker the second strap to the left end of the headstock, do you mean loop around the spindle, or is there another point that can be wrapped around?

Click to expand...

Spindles is stout enough, but I cringe at that. REALLY cringe..

The strap itself should NOT have anything but a direct loop. The choker is a separate critter, no need for it to be all that stout. Could use a lighter and longer strap, for example.

We used some plastikote covered hooks I traffic in, edge of casting, then secured the span by snugging-up with flat ratchet straps so it couldn't get loose and/or shift position.

That was on my '42, and the wrecker lift carried a VERY stout 4' x 6' pallet with it. Full two-inch dimensioned lumber, bottom deck as well as top, and through bolted, not lag-screwed.

Used an 8K or 12K lb rented forklift to take it out, this end. Very uneven surface under, so that was more worrisome than the hook that we had picked it up with in Durham, NC. Also cost about four times as much, what with drop and recovery charge.

The '44 arrived here on a good trailer, PO had a toe-jack, steel channels, mid-point suppport goods, and a shop-fabbed skate & cradle frame to place under it.

Lowered it down the ramps with his electric winch. Tail of the trailer and ends of the ramp clear inside my space, so all we had to do once on the flat was run a hydraulic garage floor jack under each corner to slide HIS skates out, and replace with a spare set of my Northern 4,400 each 'purple' ones.

Thing to remember about a 10EE is that it is top-heavy, can face-plant either direction, or even go TS arse over HS teakettle if on a ramp 'coz the HS end is so much heavier than the TS end.

The cast covers can crack in a New York Minute as well.

Tubes, BTW, if yah have those, need REALLY special TLC.

I just did this. I used a stout bar of steel under the bed just towards the headstock side of the first web and a strap around the bar. The web would have been too far to the tailstock. would not have balanced well.

I put it on a pallet that I had made. 2" thick timbers on 4x6's. I made it wide enough to pallet jack from the end as that is how I can best move it at my end. Was very stable.

Pete

The second strap to the headstock end is overthinking things.

I did exactly as you described; ran a nylon strap in a basket around the first bed web. The machine was too tailstock heavy. So then I threw a couple 4x4s under the bed web to move the balance point slightly towards the headstock. Ran a basket under these and it balanced perfectly.

Craned two 10ee's 100ft over other machines with zero excitement this way.

Halco, would have a picture? I assume you meant headstock heavy....

bll230 said:

Halco, would have a picture? I assume you meant headstock heavy....

Click to expand...

Unless the final-drive motor is out, yes, the MG ones usually are HS-heavy, even with TS still on and carriage towards it.

WiaD or Modular, or MG-era with MG out also, mebbe not.

Choker(s) sort that better than guesswork.

bll230 said:

Halco, would have a picture? I assume you meant headstock heavy....

Click to expand...

Whoops, misspoke. Yes headstock heavy.

The 4x4s are just visible below-right of the chuck key in this photo:

Thank you. Going to buy a 4x4 now.

bll230 said:

Thank you. Going to buy a 4x4 now.

Click to expand...

You might also consider strapping them to the bed, independently of the sling.

That way, they cannot shift whilst you are rigging, taking up, releasing, taking up again on the main sling.

I like to not have them there at all, 'coz they cannot move anywhere if they are not there to begin with, and for-sure the cast-in web is not moving.

I'm still not clear on where to best grab with a choker at the headstock end to balance the load. Anyone have an image? I'd prefer to not re-invent the wheel.

My formerly MG '51 has the generator removed, and does not balance well when lifted by a crossmember inserted in front of the spindle. The tailstock was not installed when I moved it. It also has a large electrical cabinet on the back of the headstock, shifted a bit to the left of the headstock, with a transformer. There is a control panel and cables above the headstock, further complicating rigging (though it can be shifted around). There is a large 480v -> 240v transformer in the far right cabinet. That may get removed, making the balance even more challenging.

As it hangs, it also tips rearward a fair bit due to the weight of the back cabinet. Slinging between knobs makes me nervous. The headstock needs boosting, and also some capturing to prevent fore-aft.

When I was moving my Lodge & Shipley via large tow truck, the operator quite rightly had it low to the ground when slowly backing up. Unfortunately the ground was uneven and he had it too low. The far side, which did not have a spotter, caught and it spun quickly in the horizontal plane. I was stabilizing the lathe against rotation with a sideline, which I knew better than to wrap around a hand (though there is temptation, since the force on the line required to prevent rotation can be significant). Still, it was a big surprise (!!) and could have been lethal. I could have been hit by the lathe, or worse, pinched between the lathe and tow truck, shifting of chokers, etc.

So even those short slow trips on a hook can have surprises. Minimal rigging that seems completely sufficient while static may not be. Another lesson in that case is that I should have used a smaller tow truck (as I had in the past). I was expecting a smaller truck.

The big truck is much harder to maneuver, the driver can't see or hear as well and is much further from the machine being moved. Ultimately the bigger truck wasted a fair bit of time and cost more per hour. Don't use too big of a truck, and don't let them substitute a bigger truck unnecessarily. I would reject that truck in the future.

Halco, Thanks, we got the job done. I took a 4x4 piece, but the guy I bought it from had a 4x6 piece and it lifted just fine. We removed the tailstock and adjusted the carriage for balance.

John

bll230 said:

Halco, Thanks, we got the job done. I took a 4x4 piece, but the guy I bought it from had a 4x6 piece and it lifted just fine. We removed the tailstock and adjusted the carriage for balance.

John

Click to expand...

Glad it went so smoothly.