looking for thread

[timewarp]

Hi, Just got my first Monarch lathe - a 12ck! It seems to be in very good condition for a 1944 model. I promise I will post some photos in a few days. I have a few questions about running a lathe like this - its not my first lathe but there are more levers than i'm used to!
I remember a post I read where someone (johnoder?) described basic operation, but I can't find it now. If anyone can find this I'd like to print it out and add it to my manual.
Also is there a description of threading as it pertains to the Monarch? The cross slide has a threading stop mechanism. not sure how it works though!
Yes I am jumping the gun as I don't have it moved into position or have power to it yet.
Happy to have joined the Monarch owners club!
Paul

 

[johnoder]

Here is my CW 16 X 102 on the business end

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/Monarch/DCP_0269.jpg

Upper levers (4) shift gears for spindle speeds

Lower levers (3) shift gears for differing threads/feeds

Not seen here is the clutch lever for headstock end. You do no shifting of gears for speeds unless spindle has stopped after disengaging clutch

Here is the carriage end

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/Monarch/Dcp_0270.jpg

It ALSO has a clutch lever, not visible here (probably off in this photo)

Small levers (2) mid face of apron engage and disengage feeds - left one for long feeds, right one for cross feeds

Lever right (1) opens and closes half nut for threading

Lever under the half nut lever is three position and reverses feed directions IN APRON. Its mid position engages interlock that locks out feed functions and THIS CENTER POSITION is the only place this lever will be DURING THREADING

Small knob visible on cross feed dial engages thread stop feature

YOUR 12CK may have the extra lever high on right side of apron that REVERSES LEAD SCREW

To reverse my lead screw I have to go to head stock, release small lever by unscrewing and then reverse lead screw.

Here is my head stock end clutch lever assy off for fixing. You are looking at it as if you were standing back by the taper attachment and could see right through the lathe.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/Monarch/DCP_0286.jpg

 

[timewarp]

Ok, on my previous lathe reversing of the power feeds was done at the headstock. I do have the lever for reversing the leadscrew (although broken) can this be used under power? for threading? Reason I ask is it looks like where the rod comes through the apron on the left side there is an adjustable stop. when this makes contact does this stop the leadscrew for example threading to a shoulder?

 

[johnoder]

Lead screw reverse does all that you suppose - and is used at the lower speeds. Lathe may be placarded for speed not to exceed when using LSR. You can thread all day long with the half nuts never disengaged and never have to look at thread dial. The lead screw does in fact stop when you come up against one of the adjustable stops. You naturally would not do this unattended unless you were stopping in a thread relief.

All foregoing based on my assumption that Monarch LSR was similar to Hendey and Pratt & Whitney, both of which I have owned and operated. Never been around a Monarch with LSR

Ok, on my previous lathe reversing of the power feeds was done at the headstock. I do have the lever for reversing the leadscrew (although broken) can this be used under power? for threading? Reason I ask is it looks like where the rod comes through the apron on the left side there is an adjustable stop. when this makes contact does this stop the leadscrew for example threading to a shoulder?

 

[beckley23]

When I tested the metric gears I made for my CK, I used the apron mounted feed/leadscrew reverse lever. I was threading at 400 RPM, and it worked great, took a little time to set the stop collar.
The reverse shaft shifts a single tooth dog clutch in the headstock. The reverse gears are mounted on the same shaft as the spindle stud gear, which is external to the headstock, it will be the first gear on the geartrain going to the gearbox. If you look at the "Another New Toy" sticky, towards the end, the reversing system is shown, or you can remove the gearbox's top cover and see the mechanism. You may have to lift the cover a bit, as there are oil lines attached to it, pull it straight out.
The apron lever has 3 positions, with the middle being nuetral, down the carriage moves left, cross feed out, up the motions are reversed.
Harry

 

[timewarp]

Thanks, I am excited to get started! My plan is to get it powered up and leveled, and assess the automatic oiling. I have a few broken levers, which I will show when I post photos.

 

[timewarp]

Thought I would just continue here with some photos.
Loading with a nice Michigan wheel loader.

Home in the shop.

There are a few broken levers, but not as bad as some I have seen. Broken gear selector and leadscrew reverse (missing) Also the crosslide handle has been repaired in the past and they kind of mangled the job.
The good news is that the ways look great, headstock gears look great, tailstock looks great. Came with 2 cushman chucks, faceplates, a steady and a collet chuck. Taper attachment as well.



I feel pretty lucky, I recently met the previous owner, he had rescued this lathe and a Lodge and Shipley from an old US Navy barge. I suggested he sell me the Monarch and he fell for it! I thought it was really nice of him actually.
Paul

 

[matt_isserstedt]

The threading stop is pretty cool, more or less its a hard rotary stop inside the dial when its engaged. So then as you chase you can back out with the cross, for the next chasing pass you just dial right back up to the hard stop, and infeed on the compound. Very slick.

Too bad about the broken handles, those will require a bit of disassembly to repair even if you had spares in hand.

Congrats, they are a nice machine!

 

[beckley23]

You've got a nice selection of tooling, but you also have a bit of work ahead of you. Do you have the rest of the reverse handle, and how about the gearbox tumbler handle?
Harry

 

[timewarp]

You've got a nice selection of tooling, but you also have a bit of work ahead of you. Do you have the rest of the reverse handle, and how about the gearbox tumbler handle?
Harry

Harry I have the rest of the gearbox tumbler handle. Unfortunately I don't have the rest of the reverse handle. I would like to replace both, but will probably start by repairing the tumbler handle. how often do these items come up for sale?

 

[beckley23]

Unless somebody has a scrap lathe, never; at least I've never seen them.
I can take some pictures of the reverse handle on my lathe, and make a dimensioned sketch.
Harry

 

[timewarp]

Unless somebody has a scrap lathe, never; at least I've never seen them.
I can take some pictures of the reverse handle on my lathe, and make a dimensioned sketch.
Harry

That would be great, as you can see in the photo it snapped where the tapered pin goes through.

 

[beckley23]

Some pictures

In the sketch the funny looking number in the bottom picture on the left is 11/16".
A couple of recommendations; If there is considerable slop between the handle and the shaft, pull the reverse shaft sleeve out, and replace the keys, It's not an easy job, but new keys will make a big difference, same goes for the apron clutch lever, but that needs a square hole sleeve available from Reid Supply.

You'll probably have to remove the gearbox to access to the tumbler handle assembly, a time consuming project, and it's heavy.

If you access to the "Home Shop Machinist" magazine, this lathe is featured in 4 issues starting in the Sep/Oct issue 2004. It's a reconditioning article much like the "Wreck Update" sticky, infact it's the basis for the "Wreck" and "Another New Toy".
Harry

 

[matt_isserstedt]

Great sketch! However isn't there more to that handle on the left side of the round hub (which would be buried inside the apron?) Just thinking that it has to be entrapped to the apron so it will traverse with the carriage. My guess is its a stepped/reduced diameter which is machined and then fitted to a bore in the apron. Snap ring inside? Not sure, just thinking out loud. If I had to repair that issue I think I'd start with the round hub, hot bend a flat bar to suit, then find or make the ball, weld it all together and spend time with various levels of angle grinder, band file, hand file, sandpaper to get down to a shape that matched the original casting. It could be a quick functional job or one that matched the original level of care put into the machine.

Edit: not suggesting that Harry should take apart his lathe for completeness (!) just pointing out a design issue in the part that could be reverse-engineered when the OP disassembles....

 

[beckley23]

The handle is taper pinned to the sleeve. If you look at the second picture you'll see the sleeve inside the handle, looking at the fourth picture you'll see the set screw that retains(IRCC, it's been 11-12 years since I had this apart) the sleeve, which may be grooved for the set screw, if not the apron will have to come off.

BTW, it's probably a good idea to pull the apron for a good cleaning. The oil pump on the left end can pulled without removing the apron, but there is probably a lot of gunk in the bottom. It would also be a good idea to make a cover for the hole on the apron's backside, directly in line with the handwheel. A surprising amount of coolant can get into the apron, as I found out the hard way, via that hole.

The apron, saddle, and gearbox are a lot heavier than they look. Extra help would be nice.
Harry

 

[timewarp]

Thank you Harry! I will definitely dig out the back copies of hsm. Going down to the shop tonight and will take a closer look. At this point I am still cleaning up 70 yrs of grime!

 

[timewarp]

Looking at the lathe, it occurs to me that either clutch lever could be made to function as a leadscrew reverse lever.

 

[beckley23]

The apron reverse lever is shaped like it is to not interfer with the clutch lever, plus it is shorter and lighter in weight. There is a spring loaded detent plunger under the gearbox cover that has 3 positions that correspond to the movement of the apron reverse lever. The pictures show the lever in the neutral position, and the lever moves up, or down, approx 45* each direction, depending which direction you want the carriage, or cross slide, to move. The reverse lever is moved up or down, the reverse shaft moves approx 3/4" left or right.
Harry

 

[timewarp]

Found the thread i was looking for originally!
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...-bough-1942-monarch-ck-12x54-what-now-209917/