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Monarch 10ee 460v to 230v conversion. NEED T6&T7 transformers

brushpile90

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Location
Huntington, Indiana
I recently acquired a 1971 10ee with the tube drive. I have the information from Monarch on how to change everything over from 460v to 230v, all I need are the correct tube heater transformers T6 and T7. They need to have an input of 230v. I am wondering if anyone has any that they would be willing to part with for a fair price. Any advice on the conversion would be appreciated as well. Thanks

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I recently acquired a 1971 10ee with the tube drive. I have the information from Monarch on how to change everything over, all I need are the correct tube heater transformers T6 and T7. I am wondering if anyone has any that they would be willing to part with for a fair price. Any advice on the conversion would be appreciated as well. Thanks

what do they look like? I have some parts but not sure what voltage they are...
 
I'm not entirely sure. The ones I have are rated for 460v. They should have an input voltage of around 230v and output is 2.5 c.t. @ 40 amps. They are .1 kva and should have about 5 voltage taps to correct the output voltage.
 
Why don't you use a buck-boost transformer and run it in reverse, 230 in 460 out straight to the T-6 & 7 transformers. It's what my buddies did to my EE.
Harry
 
I think a boost transformer would work as harry pointed out.

Should you want to convert as you posted originally - If they are the transformers on the tilt down tube board I believe I have a entire board assembly (less tubes). I can check to verify it is the 230V version. I sold the others of these for $125 plus shipping - they are fairly heavy and bulky s no flat rate box. I also have some transformers but I don't believe they are from a modular drive (they are larger).

Paul
 
Yes they are the two transformers on the tilt down board. Right below the tubes themselves. In reading other threads I believe they should be Trenco Transformers, Type TR-8218. 200/250 in, 2.5ct out 100va, 50/60 cycles. I have considered running a step up transformer just for the t6 & t7 transformers but wouldn't mind paying a little more to get the correct ones in there.
 
I have a board - I'll verify tonight that it is the right voltage. The loose transformers are physically larger TR5866 and TR5313 (last digit on that one may be a 3, 5, or 8 hard to tell in the picture I happen to have on my phone.

If your interested you can email me - email should be available by clicking on my username.
Paul
 
To accomplish this conversion, you only need a 250 to 500 V-A 115/230 to 230/460 control transformer.

The 115/230 side (wired for 230) would be towards the 230 source, the 230/460 side (wired for 460) would be towards the load.

As usual, the source should be fused in both legs. Many such control transformers come with built-in fuseholders.

If your starter coil is also 460, then you can power your "3-wire control station" from that transformer as well.
 
To accomplish this conversion, you only need a 250 to 500 V-A 115/230 to 230/460 control transformer.

The 115/230 side (wired for 230) would be towards the 230 source, the 230/460 side (wired for 460) would be towards the load.

As usual, the source should be fused in both legs. Many such control transformers come with built-in fuseholders.

If your starter coil is also 460, then you can power your "3-wire control station" from that transformer as well.


How would I determine if my starter coil is 460 v? Keep in mind that my machine has all of the controls in the cabinet behind it. Including the power buttons. If it is 460v then I might be leaning towards the step-up transformer. I can get one that is .25 kva. Is that sufficient to run both tube heater transformers (.1kva each) and the control station?
 
"How would I determine if my starter coil is 460 v? Keep in mind that my machine has all of the controls in the cabinet behind it. Including the power buttons. If it is 460v then I might be leaning towards the step-up transformer."

Examine the indicia on the main starter's coil. The specification should be printed or embossed there.


"I can get one that is .25 kva. Is that sufficient to run both tube heater transformers (.1kva each) and the control station?"

Each of the two filament transformers requires 83 V-A.

Therefore, with 166 V-A going to the pair of transformers, you have 84 V-A left over for the starter's coil.

IOW, more than enough margin.
 
The two contactors directly underneath the large fuses are most likely the main contactors.

The coils are more-or-less in the middle of these, and should be printed or embossed with the coil voltage.
 
"All 4 contactors in the cabinet are labeled 120v."

I guess the JIC package is a bit different from the integrated controller.

If you connect the primary of the add-in transformer for 115/230, and the secondary for 230/460, you should be able to obtain 115 from one side (line) of the primary to the center tap of said primary.

There is a famous saying about Electro-Motive Diesel (large manufacturer of diesel-electric locomotives): EMD means "Every Model Different", which is, of course, a cheap shot.

But, it is true that every Monarch is a little bit different. Perhaps all identical within batches, but a little different between batches.

Never forget that nearly 1/3 of Monarch's entire production was of this one model, over a production which spanned perhaps 70 years.
 
I suspect that a transformer already exists in the JIC drive cabinet to derive the 115 volts for the main contactors.

An essential element in any Monarch drive modification is an accurate schematic diagram of the drive system.

Such a schematic is usually provided with the machine manual (available from Monarch), but Monarch reportedly also can supply just the drive schematic diagram.
 
I dug into the cabinet a little bit and followed the main power lines coming in. Right below the main fuses 2 lines exit on legs 1 and 3. 2 lines per leg. I followed one set of lines over to a small transformer that converts the 460 down to 120, and can easily be rewired for 230v operation. I assume the other set of power lines goes to the main transformer down in the base of the machine by the motor. I guess one question I have now is how does the 120v coil in the contactor obtain a neutral connection. I was thinking that 115 or 120v always had to have a neutral to operate? Maybe this is wrong? After looking into the cabinet I feel like the conversion should be pretty straight forward. I did order a step up transformer to power the 2 tube heater transformers, but depending on how that goes I may just end up buying the correct tr-8218 transformers from PaulM.
 
One other question, if I power up the machine with 230v and find out I did something wrong will something burn out, or will it just not run. I feel like since I am dropping voltage I should be ok, but just wondering.

Thanks
 
"I guess one question I have now is how does the 120v coil in the contactor obtain a neutral connection. I was thinking that 115 or 120v always had to have a neutral to operate? Maybe this is wrong?"

120 is 120 is 120.

It needs two wires, of course, but one need not be a neutral.

However, should you intentionally ground one wire, then that wire does, indeed, become a grounded conductor, thereby creating a "separately derived system".

Yes, you MUST change the shunts for 230 volts ... a 230 volt shunt is one-half of the length of a 460 volt shunt.
 
Ok, I started digging into everything tonight and have a few more questions. I switched the connections on the terminal strip in the base of the machine. There were 2 jumpers that had to be moved over to h1-h3 and h2-h4. I think one for the big transformer down there and one for another smaller one. In looking down there, there is another small transformer that is labeled tr 8916 I believe and has only one input voltage listed, 460v, and an output of 2.5ct at 25VA. Any idea what this is for? I am worried that this transformer will not be powered correctly. I am assuming the big transformer down there is dual voltage and the other medium sized one has a tag that says 230/460. Any ideas where to go from here? Here is a picture of the medium one.
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The next problem I am having is that I cannot find the shunt wires. I spent about 30 minutes poking around and pulling stuff out and am unable to locate any wires that go out and then come back again. Here is a picture of what I believe to be the main contactor, and also the terminal strip that the wires from here go to, and also the terminal strip at the bottom. Some wires go down to another terminal strip that sends power down into the base of the machine, (so do some of the wires from the top strip). Keep in mind these electronic controls are in a cabinet behind the machine.

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Above the terminal strip and to the left in the 3rd picture above there is a coil that says shunt coil 115v. Would this have anything to do with not being able to find the shunt wires?

Here is a picture of 2 other controls, I'm not sure what they do. Any insight would be great.

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