Monarch 10ee's in Northern California?

Hi Guys,

First off, thanks for taking the time to read this, I spend most of my time lurking and trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible and frankly I don't have too much to offer in the way of advice.. yet. Anyway, I have become enamored by the recent discovery of the Monarch 10ee. I would really like to own one of these machines, and this is quite the repository for Monarch knowledge. I was hoping you could give me some advice.

I live in Cotati, CA, about 50 miles north of San Francisco. I currently have an older 1946 Logan (well PowerKraft) lathe that I have been using for the last couple years. After reading the forums and I am looking to move up to a Monarch 10ee. The problem I am having is that there doesn't seem to be many of these machines in the area. I have kept a close eye on craigslist, as well as local auctions. There are a couple machine dealers in the area, but the prices seem pretty steep, for me at least. One dealer, (nice guy and is knowledgeable with EEs) is asking $8,500 for a pretty decent machine, with a fair amount of tooling. It is a square dial machines, with a retrofitted Baldor Smart motor / Encoder. The back gear box has been removed, and the he told me that the vector encoder will increase torque if the motor begins to bog down, I'm not sure if you have any experience/insight with this type of retrofit. It makes sense in theory.

The other options are to look on Ebay for a machine, but I am very hesitant to spend a lot of money on a machine site unseen. Maybe I am just being a bit unrealistic at finding a good running EE at ~5-6K locally. I was hoping you might be able to give me some advice as to seeking out one of these beautiful machines. Also, the machine would be running in a home shop (single phase, 220V), and I was wondering if you could recommend which drive system would be preferable for that situation. I have reasonable grasp on electronics ( I work with VFDs, motor starters, DC control cabinets, PLCs, etc) so I am not frightened by the drive systems, but I know there are several configurations that are more desirable for the home shop environment (thinking WIAD and modular). Any and all at advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks again for you advice.

Just a couple of things. I would say its OK to shop "around" meaning geographically. I got my EE in PA when I lived in GA. I'd also say the amount you are investing should be reflected in due diligence that you put forth (and expend in its process). I did some simple indicator tests on the bed for reference and cut a test bar before I set down the money.

Relative to spindle drive systems, my thoughts are if its something that the current owner has been using, its still performing as expected, then probably OK for awhile. If its the case where a seller got a dead EE, added a VFD as sort of a cobbled repair, marked it up to a 5 figure price, then I'd beware. Usually these kinds of "improvements" are marked by obvious shoddy attention to detail in the electrical department.

That said, don't count me as a detractor of a VFD. I fully think that's the future. Any machine where I had a dead spindle drive I'd be attempting to integrate a VFD with due care hoping to equal the original attention to detail. With Bonus Points for being able to retain the backgear function. My own OEM drive is still functioning as expected, but time is marching on. I'd say the majority of these machines are 50+ years old now. And if I was faced with that decision, I'd go with a VFD, taking some cues from what Monarch-Sidney is doing in a late-model refresh as far as sizing.

If you were going with a OEM drive I'd recommend the module drive. It seems a lot simpler to me than a WiaD, it still runs on single phase, and there are some fairly easy steps to help divide between problems with the module, or not.

Good luck in the search!

One is up for bid on E-bay now It's a Boeing EE
bidadoo_auctions is listing it for Boeing I just looked 6 days to go and it's at $800. the last one sold for about $5000. but it had a truck load of tooling
John

I have seen two 10EE's for sale on Sacramento Craigslist in the last two years. One was for $4500 and the other was $6500. I went and looked at the $4500 one. It was in good shape and nicely tooled.

They do come up for sale, however not often.

Hi guys thank for the advice. Matt, were you pretty sure that you were going to purchase the machine before you headed up there? I have thought about travelling but I would hate to pay the cost to travel, and then find the machine in sub par condition. Were you able to speak with the owner and feel it out a bit?


John, I am not sure if these are issues, but I am curious as there are many of the covers are removed. It also looks like the oil site glasses have been removed, unsure if it has been run like that, also it looks like the forward/neutral/reverse lever could be broken (looks like it is upside down). Would any of these things concern you, or am I thinking about it too much?

My EE is a ex Boeing then spent 10 years in a job shop It cost me $3000 + trucking it home I have a thread about it, Boeing EE, In Seattle EE are very hard to come by everybody wants one
Yes it's a fixer but it may go cheap. Call them get more photos or go up and look at it. this is the 3rd one sold this year by Boeing
John

John,

Awesome, thanks for the input. I am going to go take a look at your thread. I added it to my watch list on ebay. I really appreciate your help.

PLC said:

Hi guys thank for the advice. Matt, were you pretty sure that you were going to purchase the machine before you headed up there? I have thought about travelling but I would hate to pay the cost to travel, and then find the machine in sub par condition. Were you able to speak with the owner and feel it out a bit?

Click to expand...

I had asked the basic questions, looked over a lot of EE threads to familiarize myself with various terminologies and quirks, how to run the machine when I got there (as I wanted to run thru all the functions). The unknown was the mechanical condition, but after a few checks it appeared to be very good. It was somewhat of a risk, but I will say the price was above the average (nowhere near the stratospheric asking prices I've seen these days), but the condition also appeared to be above the average, too, with lots of tooling included. It had the original drive, ran smoothly in all speeds, and (oddly) most importantly, did not appear to be a fresh repaint.

If the bedway oiling is working that's a good sign in general IMHO, as of course it helps prevent wear on the machine.

Sequim Tool said:

One is up for bid on E-bay now It's a Boeing EE
bidadoo_auctions is listing it for Boeing I just looked 6 days to go and it's at $800. the last one sold for about $5000. but it had a truck load of tooling
John

Click to expand...

The condition is listed as "For parts or not working". This machine looks like a significant project.
Do you want a project (for the right price) or do you want a working machine?

extropic said:

The condition is listed as "For parts or not working". This machine looks like a significant project.
Do you want a project (for the right price) or do you want a working machine?

Click to expand...

I was actually taking a closer look earlier tonight, and thinking the same thing. I don't think it is the right one for me... perhaps if I had more experience with the 10EEs and was better networked in terms of finding replacement parts I would reconsider. I am sure it will make a nice machine for someone.

In all honesty, I don't want a huge project. However, I would not be dissuaded by something that needed a little work. Ideally, I would like a machine that is in working order. What I would really want to avoid is a money pit, hence my timidness for shopping ebay. Admittedly, it is hard not to look at them with that said. I swear if the EEs were paintings, they would be Boteros.

My shop is in Oakland with a 1970 EE if you want to come get a little hands on time. I wanted one for years and watched CL like a hawk before pouncing on one minutes after it was posted. Since I responded first the guy let me come look at it first. He claimed to have tons of replies, even from other western states from people willing to buy it just from the pictures. I've got to know him and think that's probably more true than a seller posturing, so I can only wish you the best of luck!

I think I know the story behind the $8500 one. Owned by a dealer named Gary, right? I happened to buy some other 10EE stuff from the guy that sold it to Gary so I got the story first hand. Gary was the first to respond and showed up cash in hand. Claimed he was new to machining and didn't have any tooling. The guy (really nice older gentleman selling off the contents of his two machine shops) selling it threw in a ton of tooling - aloris toolpost with lots of holders, a few chucks, full 2J collet set and chuck (iirc), etc. Gary got away with everything for $3000 and then put it up for sale in his store and ebay for $8500 the next day. Gary did forget to grab the manual that went with the Monarch drive upgrade and hasn't been back to get it so I know where it is. Certainly nothing illegal but the owner sure felt duped. Oh well ...

Wow- thank you for the offer, and I will probably take you up it! You won't get mad if I drool on it a bit, right? I'll bring some tissue paper....

How long were you actively watching craigslist? I really hope I don't have to wait years, but I want to get the right machine.

The dealer I spoke with was not named Gary. I think that this might be a different EE. I realized today that there was another PM member that had a look at the lathe and started a thread about it. Here http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/advice-whether-purchase-not-281679/

He decided to pass, and the dealer picked it up.

Seems like a large mark-up but he is working on getting all the original equipment, and is rewiring to include the original controls. I really can't say anything bad about him - seemed like an honest guy. He patiently answered all my questions, ended up talking with him for about 30 mins. He is a EE enthusiast himself. I also understand that he is running a business.

Thanks again for generous offer. I'll contact you via PM.