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Monarch series 60 13" lathe... Am I wrong in thinking this would be an improvement?

TheOldCar

Stainless
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Location
Utah, USA
Monarch series 60 13" lathe... Am I wrong in thinking this would be an improvement?

There is a model 60 13" (14.5" actual swing) Monarch for $1900 about 4 miles from my house. I have always dreamed of a Monarch.

I listened to it run, looked it over, and it feels niiiiice! It has been painted like 7 times, which scares me but it was an USAF machine so maybe that's the reason for so many repaints? It's ways aren't worn out, and there isn't gouges, hammer marks, crashes, etc. that I would expect (like my lathes seem to be covered with).

HERE is my question: IF it is in good shape, am I wrong thinking it will be a better lathe for my personal kind of work? What I honestly do is mostly smaller than 1-1/2" diameter, mostly mild steel, and besides simple shafts and bushings also includes lots of artsy fartsy stuff. I have a South Bend 13" with VFD and a truly clapped out Sheldon 13" belt driven that I use. The Sheldon with VFD spins up to 1600 rpm safely and gets most of my use, but really is heavily worn everywhere. I was thinking the Monarch would make a nice replacement for the Sheldon, being way more rigid and WAY heavier. But maybe I'm a fool thinking it will work for all of the small diameter crap I turn. I do like nice finish and I like using carbide. But maybe this Monarch isn't the right way to go... If I want fine finishes and turn mostly smaller stuff, maybe I need to save for a 10EE. Is the 60 more for heavy removal? Is it true that though it is rigid, the gear head would hinder fine finishes??

Is it obvious I'm a wannabe machinist?!?! :o

This lathe sure is nice looking and feeling. Any help, even scolding, appreciated!
 
I've never used a model 60, but it looks like a nice machine. I use a 14"x40" for everyday work and usually run it with an 8" 6 jaw. When turning small work, I would run into issues with the chuck not being able to get small enough. For a while I used a 4 inch 3 jaw in the 6 jaw, but it was a pain. I finally picked up a 6" 3 jaw for the lathe and can grip most small work. I suppose a collet setup would work, but I don't do much small turning.

Then again if 99% of what you turn is under 1.5", do you need anything bigger than your 13" southbend? Of course if you have the cash, and you just want a new machine, I'm sure the monarch will be several steps up. I kind of did the same thing, but started with a 10" south bend.
 
It says Tool Room Lathe on the nameplate. I've read online that some series 60 are engine lathes, others tool room, and that there is a difference...?

You're probably right (above post). I may be crazy thinking the bigger lathe would improve my ability to make small stuff. I have it in my head that the rigidity of the Monarch 60 would be a big improvement in using carbide AND surface finish. But am I wrong? I love my HSS, but I've also been enjoying how quickly I can remove metal with carbide inserts.
 
That Monarch is 10x the lathe a Sheldon or South Bend ever was. If you get the 60 you will probably never use the SB or Sheldon again. If all 3 are 13" lathes why do you think the 60 is too big when the other two are not? You will find it easy to get a fine finish with the Monarch. Anyone that says you can't get a good finish because it is a gear head does not know what what they are talking about. You are not wrong, rigid is good in every way. Get it, you will not be sorry. Sell the other two and get most of your money back.
 
In good shape, really nice machines with a ton of uses. Your conundrum of small pins could be addressed with a VFD or a collet lathe or keep what you have for small stuff. Thinking the surface finish you'd get is compromised by the gears in the head of the machine is not correct. You might want to go play with the controls to see how easy it is to use a lathe like that.
 
A lathe of the Monarch's quality is unaffordable new today. These older, high quality machines in good condition are becoming scarcer everyday. Picking up those lathes when available is always a good investment. Once you use it for awhile, you will soon realize why they are held in such high esteem. Go for it and don't look back.
 
I offered the guy 1700 bucks, but he said he had other interested buyers. I could cancel Christmas :crazy: and scrape up the $200 more to meet what he is asking, but I worry about a couple of things. It has one gear missing a tooth in the headstock. It leaks plenty, and one of the levers is broken. I haven't seen the gear 'cause I never removed the top cover (and he says it still has plenty of contact with the surrounding teeth/doesn't make noise...?). I imagine the gear would be quite costly, and I worry that other issues will show up. They always do!

It is a tool room model, has taper attachment, and feels soooooo smooth and stout. It runs quietly, too. Is $1900 still a great price? I assumed it was for this lathe, but I am open to your wise opinions. I am definitely obsessed...:drool5:
 
Don't know anything about monarch 60's but I do know that teeth are repairable. I replaced one on my back gear. Lots of threads on here with information on how to go about it

Teryk
 
Just a note of caution. Despite the high end machine the headstock gear replacement isn't trivial. Of the roughly 5500 lbs in the machine total, I'd say almost 1000 is in the headstock assembly itself. Best choice IMO would be to try to work around that speed or lever position which engages that gear. Monarch geared headstocks are filled internally with monstrous helical gears and I'd reckon they are best sold in pairs so they match especially since the original was built probably 60 years ago. If its a lesser drive gear or one on the end gear train...especially a spur gear...that's much more easily replaced or repaired. I thoroughly admire the dedication to good machine design all over but especially on the pump- lubricated end gearing on the S60-61.

What I would consider a deal breaker is the condition of the cross-slide leadscrew and its mating nut. If there is a lot of backlash, options could be limited. The design is pretty "space-saving" inside there and packaging that Monarch used seems to drive choices of Acme major diameters and leads that can't be bought from less expensive off-the-shelf precision-Acme parts. So then you are back to Monarch Lathes. While it is absolutely wonderful they will build any part short of a casting, my guess is the assembly of two parts is north of $1200. Some backlash is acceptable in that mechanism but get into something in the area of .060-.100" and that's getting pretty worn out and will affect the precision of what one can do with it.

Sorry to be a wet blanket but at least go with eyes wide open. It is still an impressive machine. We need pics.
 
Although the warnings here are certainly correct, it is not discouraging to me, as Monarch is still around and they do have most parts for that series. Spares won't be cheap, but availability is a very real plus. They also carry spares for the later L & S machines as well. It is very important to note that unlike CNC gear, the life expectancy is 100 yrs. In good shape, these machines will become more valuable as time passes. Just do it.
 
My thought is that you will be selling one of your other lathes. So, there should be some cash. If this one works out, then you might think of getting a smaller lathe for your work. Maybe a 10EE?? Or SB 10L (I feel the hate), or possibly a Rivett. Its nice to have a small and a large lathe.
 
I rebuilt a 16" southbend and after I used it for a couple of years at the house sold it and got a Monarch K. I have been machining since 1982 and the difference between the southbend and Monarch is very stark. The 60's series are excellent machines, they will do you well. Earl
 
Just a note of caution. Despite the high end machine the headstock gear replacement isn't trivial. Of the roughly 5500 lbs in the machine total, I'd say almost 1000 is in the headstock assembly itself. Best choice IMO would be to try to work around that speed or lever position which engages that gear. Monarch geared headstocks are filled internally with monstrous helical gears and I'd reckon they are best sold in pairs so they match especially since the original was built probably 60 years ago. If its a lesser drive gear or one on the end gear train...especially a spur gear...that's much more easily replaced or repaired. I thoroughly admire the dedication to good machine design all over but especially on the pump- lubricated end gearing on the S60-61.

What I would consider a deal breaker is the condition of the cross-slide leadscrew and its mating nut. If there is a lot of backlash, options could be limited. The design is pretty "space-saving" inside there and packaging that Monarch used seems to drive choices of Acme major diameters and leads that can't be bought from less expensive off-the-shelf precision-Acme parts. So then you are back to Monarch Lathes. While it is absolutely wonderful they will build any part short of a casting, my guess is the assembly of two parts is north of $1200. Some backlash is acceptable in that mechanism but get into something in the area of .060-.100" and that's getting pretty worn out and will affect the precision of what one can do with it.

Sorry to be a wet blanket but at least go with eyes wide open. It is still an impressive machine. We need pics.

It does have backlash in the cross slide, I think it was .070 or so.
 
It does have backlash in the cross slide, I think it was .070 or so.

On my 10EE, someone had removed one of the thrust bearings. I did get a new cross slide lead screw and nut from Miller's Machine. Don't know if they make one for what you are looking at or do custom ones. I would take it apart and see if threads are worn, thrust bearings OK or not, also if it just needs the nut. On some SB's I had, replacing the nut took out most if not all the back lash.
 
It does have backlash in the cross slide, I think it was .070 or so.

All manual machines will have backlash. .070" is a lot, but there is a good chance that a large portion of that can be adjusted out. A lot of people never seem to bother to tweak their machines to remove the slop typically found at several locations.

I should think that machine would be perfectly capable of making a new crossfeed screw and nut if required.

Christmas comes every year - good quality machines probably don't in Utah (guessing):D.

Wayne
 
I currently own a Series 60, and the damn thing is so nice I feel guilty owning it. I cannot think of another machine I would trade it for. Regarding not getting fine finishes on a gearhead...what a canard. How many CNC machnes do you know of that are belt fed?
 
$1900 is cheap for a good Series 60/61. I would not hesitate grapping it if I had the room, had the ability to move a very heavy lathe (this would be in the 8-12,000 lbs range), and of course transport something this heavy. These last to items could cost more than the lathe is.

With the right tooling and work holding you can do small shafts on this lathe. I worked with a guy that in a past live ran a toolroom Model CN with 30" swing. He was running parts normally done on the EE holding the precision tolerance. I couldn't believe it when the foreman told him to run this little shaft on that big of a machine, and feel in love with his new lathe (that was about 30 years old at the time). So a 13" Series 60 should have no problem doing the work you were doing on your SB.

Just remember there is a lot more turning power in the Monarch, and you will not stall out the spindle like a small SB, so you got to be much more respectful and remember that this Lion can bite your arm off.

My 2 cents,

John
 
I currently own a Series 60, and the damn thing is so nice I feel guilty owning it. I cannot think of another machine I would trade it for. Regarding not getting fine finishes on a gearhead...what a canard. How many CNC machnes do you know of that are belt fed?

Monarch's have helical gearing to allow smooth finish even at low speed. It will not produce gear marks like spur geared heads. The Series 62, 610, 612, 613, 614 has spur gears for the higher speeds, but all low speeds go through a helical bull gear for more teeth in contact give better finishes.

John
 








 
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