New to me Monarch 10ee #19354 questions

rimcanyon said:

There used to be a 10EE operators manual available online at the MIT hobby shop. I just searched for it and couldn't find it, maybe you have to use the waybackmachine. You can always buy a copy from Monarch.

Dave

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hanermo said:

Electricals..

There are different ways of looking at it.
1. I want to run it as-built, and will do major hoops/work to do so.
According to many threads here.
2. I want to run an excellent lathe well.

If 2.

2.1
Cheapest-easy is a big 3-phase motor and a VFD (import).

Pick any size of motor from burden surplus center or your local motor rebuilder.
Add a few contact+safety switches as preferred, for 50$ or so, done.
Junk all old stuff.

2.2
Best, by far.
Add a real ac brushless servo motor.
I did, for 2.5 kW, and have 90 Nm of torque and perfect speeds/positioning/c axis from 0-1000 rpm no belt changes.
More expensive.
I used a good timing belt setup, HTD8-30, not cheap, at 24:72 teeth.

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eglicomet said:

This is exactly what I needed to hear! Thank you.

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hanermo said:

You are very welcome.
My setup, at 10 Nm cont. or 30 Nm peak, at 1:3, delivers 90 Nm peak upto 3 secs.

A Haas ST10 has 102 Nm at 1200 rpm, peak, and less elsewhere.
I use a 220V (EU), 50 Hz servo, 3000 rpm, 1400€ all in.

Comparison:
VFD + 3 phase on old Bp accelerates to top speed about 1 sec.
Servo, 0.02 secs to 0.2 sec, depending on what I want.
I use about 0.1 secs, by restricting acceleration.

Hard jerks wear stuff (belts, pulleys, screws) out fast.

But..
A 2nd hand 7 hp / 5 kw 3-phase motor -- 100$.
VFD 300$ or so.
Very steady speed, soft start/stop, good torque.

1/3 the price, 50-70% the results.

If you can afford it, the servo, always.
If not, the 3-phase is very easy and pretty good.

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hitandmiss said:

For those of us that work on these machines, post pictures of the spindle motor, the DC panel beside it, a picture of the generator junction box (behind the cover at your feet as you stand at the cranks) and a shot of the generator & exciter in the T/S end of the base. Also if there are any boxes on the back side of the lathe, pictures of them too.

There are quite a few people on this forum that have done exceptional restorations of the EE, and others that have fixed what is keeping them from running and just use them to make chips. Along with members that are willing to help solve whatever problem you are having on the adventure of bring her back to life.

Bill

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eglicomet said:

I do believe the VFD is more inline with my budget. Here's a question that shows how little I know about all things electrical: Is there a solid state device that accomplishes everything that a VFD does but for a DC motor?

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eglicomet said:

Hi there folks,
I just found a 10ee that was covered up in the back of machine shop and I'm trying to figure out how to make it run. The previous owner hadn't used it in years and said that it just stopped working. What are the steps to evaluate the electrical condition of the MG setup?

Also, where can I find an operators manual on the care and feeding of the round dial machines? I'd like to clean it up, change the oil, etc.
...

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Cal Haines said:

Alex,

The odds are very good that what's wrong with the machine is very minor, given that it "just stopped working". Could be a blown fuse, a tripped overload relay, loose connection.

Tearing out the original drive system is DEFINITELY NOT to easiest nor best way to get the machine running! The Monarch 10EE got its reputation as one of the finest toolroom lathes ever made in no small part due to its drive system. If it still has the original MG setup, you have a drive that has lasted longer that most of us have been alive and given great service with minimum maintenance. You wouldn't rip the stock engine out of a classic '60s muscle car just because it wouldn't start, would you? And doing good VFD conversion, with back gear, is not a simple matter.

As far as getting the original drive working, thing number one is to get the MG (motor/generator) running. You need 3-phase power, but that can be provided by an inexpensive RPC (rotary phase converter) or static converter (really just a motor starter).

This thread will walk you through the steps to determine if the machine is ready to run from 220:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/10ee-mg-440-220-conversion-checklist-237118/

You can download a manual here: www.metalillness.com :: View topic - Monarch 1ee Manuals

I'm more than willing to help you get the original drive running.

Cal

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Peter. said:

I have a DC drive in my machine and I use the original panel and motor. Here are my observations:

Pros:

It's quiet - the original motor has a very noisy cooling fan.
You keep all the original panel features - motor braking, controlled plug-reverse etc
Comparatively cheap

Cons

Needs a boost transformer to get full 240VDC into the motor for all the 3hp
Needs a 115v field supply for the panel
Takes time to fit and wire in
You're still relying on a lot of 60-70 yr old components. Mine have been super reliable so far but I dread to think what I'll do is any of the panel stuff fails.

So if you want a powerful modern machine with new drive components, fit a modern motor and drive. If you want to keep it original buy some ear plugs and get it running, it'll probably do another 50yrs they are so well made. If you can't get it working or can't stand the noise get a DC drive to power that lovely and unique motor.

Just promise not to scrap any original parts, please. Especially DC panel parts they are getting hard to find.

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Cal Haines said:

So, just one photo so far?

That's the main AC contactor. It has a 220 VAC coil, so the machine may be wired for 220 already. You should still check the fuses and overload heaters to make sure they are correct for 220 as well.

Where do the wires going out the top lead to? Power normally comes in via a conduit on the back of the machine, down low. There is usually a disconnect box with fuses where the conduit goes into the back of the machine. Wires run from the disconnect to the bottom of the contactor compartment via the conduit.

You have the switch for the coolant pump. Check the compartment in the back and see if the pump is in there.

Cal

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