Oh boy got my 10ee! Have many questions, most are sundstrand related.

Finally got my machine home today, thank goodness for lift gates. Its a 4/1940 ee-7120 machine. Still has the sundstrand drive but with updated motor. She sat for about 15 years since the passing of her original owner, but it was nice and cozy in a heated garage and still looks quite nice. It came complete with steady and follow rests, collets, draw bar, taper attachment, original manual, etc.

Where to begin....

The sundstrand seems finicky. Upon starting up and selecting a direction, it will often release a death rattle then start spinning. While running the pump is a little noisy but I also had all the covers off and was anxious to hear it run. The speed adjustment seems to work mainly in 3 revolutions of the crank range, then kinda freewheels. Also, I assume it reaches top speed, but I believe the rpm gauge is inaccurate since its showing only about 750rpm (sure looks like its buzzing waaaaay faster than that). There is clean looking oil in the tank, say halfway up. I have not gone through the trouble shooting steps in the manual, but I will, just hoping to hear of others experiences.

Oil oil oil. What is the preferred oil for sundstrand pumps. I saw in another post anything with an ISO-32 rating? Yes/No? That equates to 10w correct? The manual specs 10w for pretty much every oil reservoir: headstock, apron, somewhere else, but I do realizes oils were a bit different seventy six years ago. Should I seek out this ISO spec or just drain and fill with 10w?

I forgot my other questions and quirks but I'm sure ill remember once I lay down in bed. Ill get pictures up tomorrow once the shop doesn't look like a war zone.

Sooooo, my being quick to jump to conclusions impaired my judgement. The machine had gotten even noisier and spindle speeds began to drop. Finally grabbed a flashlight and discovered the belt was so loose that it was creating a "S" on the un-tensioned side and slapping the crap out of the unit. Derp.

Again, me not assessing things carefully I hastily pulled the drive unit to deal with the belt. Pretty easy actually, (my $100 pallet jack has proven its worth), but I then discovered the adjustable/removable cheek pulley that I could have dealt with the belt while inside the casing. Derp. Ive concluded it was all for good since there is a alignment issue between pulleys from the motor retrofit, causing the self destruction of the previous belt.

Waiting for a belt and fluids now and gonna pull the motor plate to slot some holes. Sorry for poor photos. Yay!

Good news!

mike.thomas1 said:

Sooooo, my being quick to jump to conclusions impaired my judgement. The machine had gotten even noisier and spindle speeds began to drop. Finally grabbed a flashlight and discovered the belt was so loose that it was creating a "S" on the un-tensioned side and slapping the crap out of the unit. Derp.

Again, me not assessing things carefully I hastily pulled the drive unit to deal with the belt. Pretty easy actually, (my $100 pallet jack has proven its worth), but I then discovered the adjustable/removable cheek pulley that I could have dealt with the belt while inside the casing. Derp. Ive concluded it was all for good since there is a alignment issue between pulleys from the motor retrofit, causing the self destruction of the previous belt.

Waiting for a belt and fluids now and gonna pull the motor plate to slot some holes. Sorry for poor photos. Yay!

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Thanks for posting those photos of the inside of a Sundstrand drive motor compartment! I have never removed the drive on my 1940 10EE - I replaced the motor (3HP 440V 3phase) with a 3HP 110/220V single phase motor without removing the drive, working through the small opening on the right in your photo to do the belt adjustment.

It is typical Monarch that they used plated bolts with pin spanner holes to attach the bottom plate. It looks like the paint is original, and a much lighter grey than my 1940.

There is a lot of unused space on the left side of the engine compartment at the back end. Perhaps Monarch was experimenting with DC motors at the time this lathe was built and designed the motor compartment with that in mind.

It is interesting that your machine has a v-belt drive; mine has a flat belt drive. What is the ratio between the spindle pulley and the Sundstrand drive pulley? On mine it is 7.25:6

I can't answer your questions about the Sundstrand drive behaviors you describe, you may need to dig into the hydraulic motor and see what needs to be done. The only time I get a clatter is if I push the lathe too hard, like taking too big a cut. Usually when that happens the spindle drive belt comes off as well.

I will take a quick measurement this evening on the drive ratio.

So its @ 7.15:5.75 on the OD on my machine.

mike.thomas1 said:

So its @ 7.15:5.75 on the OD on my machine.

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That is slightly higher than the ratio on my 1940 lathe (1.24 vs. 1.21), not that it matters.

What does your 5C collet rack look like? One, two or three layers?

Mind showing us lots of good quality picture? I'm just curious what this lathe looks like! If I did the math right the original owner had this for 60 years. My first lathe was a SB and I did buy it from the original owner. He had tears in his eyes as we loaded it in the truck.

Well here are the current pics. I may have overstated the original owner thing but he did own it for a considerable amount of time. The old fellow who owned it before me was Lee Root, apparently well known for building running quarter scale automotive engines, many which can be seen on www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com. I know he retired from Blaser tool and die and I can't remember if the machine came from that facility or not. After I resolved the belt issue she is running quite beautifully, loosening up after some fresh fluids and running it through all the settings. Only thing that is not spot on is the tachometer which works but does not appear to reading right. I gotta look for an old post talking about a place here in Seattle that can calibrate it. Now my goal is to collect tooling and start making some chips. Keep in mind I'm a hobbyist and my last lathe was a 1896 Seneca Star.

Nice machine! The collet rack is the same as mine. The rebuilt tag is also interesting - Shrewsbury Ltd. sounds like a British firm, so the machine may have been in England during WWII. Who was the original purchaser? If you call Monarch they will tell you.

-Dave

mike.thomas1 said:

Well here are the current pics. I may have overstated the original owner thing but he did own it for a considerable amount of time. The old fellow who owned it before me was Lee Root, apparently well known for building running quarter scale automotive engines, many which can be seen on www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com. I know he retired from Blaser tool and die and I can't remember if the machine came from that facility or not. After I resolved the belt issue she is running quite beautifully, loosening up after some fresh fluids and running it through all the settings. Only thing that is not spot on is the tachometer which works but does not appear to reading right. I gotta look for an old post talking about a place here in Seattle that can calibrate it. Now my goal is to collect tooling and start making some chips. Keep in mind I'm a hobbyist and my last lathe was a 1896 Seneca Star.

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Would it be this guys who did the rebuild?

Sentinel Manufacturing - Home

may be worth a quick email, to ask them if they have the docs.


dee
;-D

I have no useful information to give. I just really like the Sundstrand-driven 10EE because that lower left speed hand wheel looks cool!

It's fascinating to me that this lathe very well went to war in England and came back in good condition. Seems most old lathes shipped professionally?only a few states away today end up in pieces on the dock. I am impressed with the addition of the flip top oilers, this isn't a early EE thing is it?

TheOldCar said:

I have no useful information to give. I just really like the Sundstrand-driven 10EE because that lower left speed hand wheel looks cool!

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Have to agree. Not for the aesthetic, but for the function, I have been considering adding something similar ( smaller ) to my own to make manipulation easier and faster. Considering a Planetary reduction to achieve a faster manipulation from high to low.

mike.thomas1 said:

Only thing that is not spot on is the tachometer which works but does not appear to reading right. I gotta look for an old post talking about a place here in Seattle that can calibrate it. Now my goal is to collect tooling and start making some chips. Keep in mind I'm a hobbyist and my last lathe was a 1896 Seneca Star.

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the tach is not hard to service. I've posted photos before that show the internals - let me know if you can't locate them. There are no internal adjustments, the instrument was calibrated when it was built by selecting the right counterweight. My suggestion is to lubricate the bearings, clean it, and test it with a simple motor drive. You will need to calculate the drive ratio, there are several gears in the drive train. I have a set of the gears and can count the teeth if you would like. I also have a spare tach (which needs a new dial) if you need parts.

Ill search around for your thread and also give Monarch a ring on Tuesday.

Found your thread but no pictures are loading.

mike.thomas1 said:

Found your thread but no pictures are loading.

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I still have the pics, will repost them tomorrow or Monday.

SO I finally got around to calling Monarch for info on the machine. Apparently serial numbers 7111-7130 (mine being 7120) were all sent to EH Jones Machine Tool in London England. It was for some sort of war production and would explain the british sounding name as the rebuilder. Interesting that it would make it all the way back to the states.

dcsipo said:

Would it be this guys who did the rebuild?

Sentinel Manufacturing - Home

may be worth a quick email, to ask them if they have the docs.


dee
;-D

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Looks like it, and in fact it looks like at the time your machine was rebuilt the company was in the ownership of Rolls Royce, so it seems that your machine really could be called "The Rolls -Royce of lathes"

1946
Thomas Hill signed an agency agreement with Sentinel for repair and maintenance of diesel vehicles. In 1947 Sentinel offered to extend the agreement for diesel vehicles to include the steam locomotives and an agency was accepted by Thomas Hill for sales and servicing. The company became Sentinel (Shrewsbury) Ltd, and had developed a new range of diesel lorries.

1956
Despite Sentinel's superbly engineered vehicles, sales diminished throughout the 1950s, and by 1956 the company was forced to cease lorry production. The factory was acquired by Rolls-Royce the same year for diesel engine production until 1983. The business name changed twice in this time to Rolls Royce Motors and again to Vickers Rolls Royce, until it was bought by Perkins Engines Ltd. The original office block and factory entrance still stand with the Sentinel statue still in place.

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