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Round dial and sundstrand drive

bellaireroad

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 4, 2015
What was the final year for the round dial, and the final year of the sundstrand drive? Thanks


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What was the final year for the round dial, and the final year of the sundstrand drive? Thanks

There is a complicating factor. Two, actually.

What were to become our allies were already at war when the Sundstrand drive was first released. Near as I can tell, serial numbers were assigned at the time the order was placed. Thereafter, "wartime priorities", for Canada & UK, perhaps others found themselves juggled. Deliveries were not in sequence with how old an order was, so 'types' were not always, either.

That got even more snarly after 7 December, 1941, when the US ALSO went onto a full wartime prioritization footing.

Korean war ran 1949-1954, the period that should have been all square-dial. Seems it again might not have been, and this time because some customers wanted their new orders of 10EE to have parts and operator control commonality with other 10EE they already owned, had trained operators, spares, and maintenance plans for. Some MG drives were delivered well after WiaD was released. A few may have even been so ordered and shipped after the "Modular" drive arrived.

IOW - with overlaps, I am not sure there is a 'clean cutoff', specific date answer for when the last of a given type shipped, even if there is a clear one for when the first one of a new type shipped..

Monarch Lathe LP can tell from each individual serial number what the 'as built' was, but only they can advise if specific dates can be set without reference to serial number lookups.

Now .. if you just need to be able to tell from a poor photograph of a distant lathe which is which? That is easier.
 
Ahhh... you nailed it. Usually can tell which is the square dial and which is the round dial ... now the drive inside from the external appearance is a different matter


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...now the drive inside from the external appearance is a different matter

Speed control / gearbox handles are the giveaway for a Sundstrand VS MG drive.

Modulars have different doors at the front than WiaD or MG.

Visually differentiating WiaD / MG I do not personally have a quick answer for. Someone else can probably point out a simple dead-giveway for that as well.

Mind - I no longer have to care.

I'd Eurotherm-Parker SSD convert all but the Sundstrand, even if the Dee Cee motor was missing. I have spares, y'see...

As to the Sundstrand's space layout, first of all, it does have more than one compartment where an electric motor could be placed. Jackshafts, driveshafts, and countershafts are nowhere near "new" technology.

Likewise, hydraulics, nor continuously-variable drives built on them have not stood still since 1937-38 when the first of those 10EE were still in R&D.

Our highway verges, farms, lawns and construction sites are full of them, mowers to plows, to skid-loaders.

"Something" is out there somewhere living as a hydraulic power unit as could be adapted to improve on the old drive.

And then.... there are 'servo' motors, and their 'by now' very well-known mating power/ control units.

For the most part, they are physically small relative to the old 'large frame' 3 HP unit, though not necessarily on their longest axis.

It would also rank as a first-order heresy to perch a final-drive motor ABOVE the 10EE as if it were an 1870's lineshaft cone-head conversion, then store canned cat food in the former 'tank' to keep it from toppling over in a nearby domestic argument.

But d'yknow what?

The spindle doesn't actually give a shit what particular tribe of third-party heathens is motating it, so long as they have big enough balls, can run at a wide range of RPM, and don't kick up a vibratory fuss doing their job.

10EE would still make same chips just as accurately as the rest of the machine could deliver.
 
What was the final year for the round dial, and the final year of the sundstrand drive? Thanks
...
I believe that 1940 is the last year that Sundstrand drive machines were built, but there might be one out there with a 1941 build date. Inline exciter motor/generator (MG) machines started showing up in late 1940. The last few round-dial's were built in the beginning of 1945. The latest round-dial that I know of was built in July of 1945. Square-dial production started around the beginning of 1945. I don't know when the first square-dial was built, probably late 1944.

Cal
 
Speed control / gearbox handles are the giveaway for a Sundstrand VS MG drive.

Modulars have different doors at the front than WiaD or MG.

Visually differentiating WiaD / MG I do not personally have a quick answer for. Someone else can probably point out a simple dead-giveway for that as well.

Mind - I no longer have to care.

I'd Eurotherm-Parker SSD convert all but the Sundstrand, even if the Dee Cee motor was missing. I have spares, y'see...

As to the Sundstrand's space layout, first of all, it does have more than one compartment where an electric motor could be placed. Jackshafts, driveshafts, and countershafts are nowhere near "new" technology.

Likewise, hydraulics, nor continuously-variable drives built on them have not stood still since 1937-38 when the first of those 10EE were still in R&D.

Our highway verges, farms, lawns and construction sites are full of them, mowers to plows, to skid-loaders.

"Something" is out there somewhere living as a hydraulic power unit as could be adapted to improve on the old drive.

And then.... there are 'servo' motors, and their 'by now' very well-known mating power/ control units.

For the most part, they are physically small relative to the old 'large frame' 3 HP unit, though not necessarily on their longest axis.

It would also rank as a first-order heresy to perch a final-drive motor ABOVE the 10EE as if it were an 1870's lineshaft cone-head conversion, then store canned cat food in the former 'tank' to keep it from toppling over in a nearby domestic argument.

But d'yknow what?

The spindle doesn't actually give a shit what particular tribe of third-party heathens is motating it, so long as they have big enough balls, can run at a wide range of RPM, and don't kick up a vibratory fuss doing their job.

10EE would still make same chips just as accurately as the rest of the machine could deliver.

Thank you for taking the time to provide a detailed explanation

Roger


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I believe that 1940 is the last year that Sundstrand drive machines were built, but there might be one out there with a 1941 build date. Inline exciter motor/generator (MG) machines started showing up in late 1940. The last few round-dial's were built in the beginning of 1945. The latest round-dial that I know of was built in July of 1945. Square-dial production started around the beginning of 1945. I don't know when the first square-dial was built, probably late 1944.

Cal

Thanks Cal

Roger


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Thank you for taking the time to provide a detailed explanation

Here's another, then.

"For consideration". The higher the voltage a DC motor (AC as well..) is wound for, the smaller it can be, physically, relative to its lower-voltage brethren.

If final-drive motor space is sorely limited, space for transformers and power-control electronics is not. Those can live elsewhere. EG: Need not have any particularly close proximity, even, to the lathe itself, let alone live inside the other compartments.

One example of significant space-saving per specific power output exists in 400 Hz 3-Phase AC motors + VFD meant to operate them. Aircraft have been built that relied on that lower size and mass for many critical needs.

Another lies with 300+ VDC to 500 VDC DC motors, rather than 230 VDC.

Get some available space dimensions out to the PM community, I'm sure something better than a 2 HP AC motor can be found that fits the space as well as the needful power-band, and at 'used but good' prices, not brand-new.

There never were many Sundstrand drive 10EE, those not outright missing have proven to be more restorable than had once been thought practical.

Even so, you will not be the only person with an interest in another option or three, 'coz at the end of the day, they didn't have as much power as the MG's that replaced them.
 








 
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